Irresponsible Rumormongering

Sizing up Chris Kreider’s trade value

If the Rangers decide to trade Kreider, what could he get?

With each day that passes without a Chris Kreider extension, the closer we get to a Chris Kreider trade. Whether or not the Rangers actually sell is still up in the air, but the smart money would be on a few trades when they fall far out of contention. Not doing so –and then letting him walk for nothing– would be an egregious mismanagement of assets.

So now we look at what Kreider could bring back in a trade at the deadline. Some of what Kreider brings back is dependent on what the Devils get for Taylor Hall. They are the top two wingers available, but it’s safe to assume Hall brings back more. He’s more skilled, if more fragile. Kreider is a matchup nightmare who is also struggling a bit this season. Funny enough, he played best with Filip Chytil and Pavel Buchnevich, and not with Mika Zibanejad. An acquiring team gets a top-six forward with an unmatched combination of speed and strength. He’s also one of the best net-front presences in the game.

The easy market value is simply to look at what Mats Zuccarello got for the Rangers, which was a pair of conditional 1sts that were in reality a 2nd and a 3rd. The high end of this might be a Kevin Hayes return, which was a 1st and a bottom-six young roster player/prospect, but centers get more than wingers on the trade market. The wild card here is the aforementioned matchup nightmare of speed and strength. Old school GMs love that stuff.

In a rare gut feeling observation, I’m going to make an educated guess that Kreider fetches more than Zuccarello on the trade market. Too many GMs value size and strength, and while Kreider doesn’t have the hands that Zuccarello does, he has a knack for big goals in the playoffs and goes to the front of the net. I know, it’s just a hunch, but I’m trying to bet on old school GMs being old school.

Given my bold prediction above, I think Kreider gets the Rangers a guaranteed first round pick. I really do. Maybe I’m just biased, because I’m also one of those that wants them to re-sign him –I have my limits on term, I’m not crazy– and give him the C. That puts him more in the Hayes return territory than the Zuccarello territory. Where the line is drawn is Mark Stone territory – that kind of return for a top prospect (Erik Brannstrom), a roster body, and a 2nd round pick isn’t happening.

With the smart money on the Rangers selling on Kreider at the deadline, Jeff Gorton is going to again need to nail this one to keep the rebuild momentum going. Kreider might be the final big name to be traded as the Rangers move into the next stage of their rebuild. Zuccarello’s name arguably hurt the most, but it may be Kreider’s departure that gives the next generation of Rangers their team to build.

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  • As a rental: A first and a middling prospect that is bottom 6 NHL ready.

    If extended: High end prospect forward who is NHL ready.

    • I would Trade Sjkei more so than anyone right now. Rangers have left d-men in the system and I just do not see Sjkei being a consistent top left d-men. Who really knows, but I see Trouba over compensating every game in the defensive zone, especially around the net. Tells me Trouba does not trust his defensive partners when opposing players are entering the zone and are getting the puck behind the defensive, in which both d- men have to re position to defend.

      I know 99% sure Kredier is a goner but in a perfect world, I would keep Kredier and move Sjkei, just my two-cents.

      • The problem is that the Rangers seem like they like Skjei, so they do not seem willing to trade him. At least that’s what appears to be the perception.

        I don’t think trading CK is a cap thing, I just don’t think that they want to pay him at this stage of his career.

  • They should get a 1st rounder OR a Top prospect — plus a little something more (like a 3rd rounder). Would prefer they focus on getting one great asset than on two nice assets. Quality not quantity at this point, we have plenty of prospects.

  • KREIDER HAD THE POTENTIAL TO BE A PREMIERE POWER FORWARD IN THE NHL, JUST NEVER SEEMED TO BE ABLE TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF HIS GENETIC GIFTS. I ONCE HAD HIM PEGGED AS THE SECOND COMING OF CAM NEELY, BUT HE NEVER PLAYED WITH THE SAME NASTINESS OR PASSION. HE HAD PLENTY OF OPPORTUNITIES, TIME TO TURN THE PAGE.

      • Me thinks we should check out our string of past first and second rounders , speedy power forwards that you can usually see in front of the net are not easy to get . Who’s gonna take his place , Howden , Mckegg , Boo , Anderson , or perhaps Sean Day , Ryan Gopp , or maybel Tambellini, enough said !

    • Bobby B…..Agree….Kreider could be a very special and unique player…I think that his desire and heart is not 100% into hockey……..Just my opinion, but when he feels like putting his effort and heart into a game, he is unstoppable…I would be very very sad to see him go.

  • “So now we look at what Kreider could bring back in a trade at the deadline. Some of what Kreider brings back is dependent on what the Devils get for Taylor Hall”. Please get this done ASAP, his value is plummeting fast.

    I’ve always been a fan of Chris, but he is showing signs of slowing down in scoring, what some 16-17 points so far this season, and his reluctance to play a solid game every time out. He is build like a brick out house, but fails to use his size to his advantage. I honestly believe that he never got over the Price hit during the playoffs vs Montreal, and isn’t the same player today as he was before that hit.

    What can we expect in return for Chris? Hopefully a first, and a prospect, but I suspect that won’t be the case. The odds are we get a second, and possibly a prospect, would you give more? We have seen this guy long enough to know that when he wants to play, (every third or fourth game), he can be a force. When he is distracted, he just doesn’t show up, and goes thru the motions. He is a very bright man, but has very little hockey sense. With his frame, he should play the game like Phil Esposito, be an unmovable object, and let the defense kill themselves trying to move him. Bottom line, the return may very well be disappointing for Chris’s services!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    • Agreed Walt,
      I was always a big fan of Chris because of his size and potential. Bottom line is, he never really panned out to expectations. He has the size and skating ability, but lacks somewhat in pure skills. He hardly even hits anybody. Todays game is more focused on skill. Chris is a seventies type player, and also seems to lose focus way to often. He is going to want a lot of money, and the type of player he is, will diminish with age. Definitely time to move on. We would be lucky to get a first rounder or at least 2 seconds.

      • craig

        How I wish he were the player we thought he was going to be. When he first came up during the PO’s, skating down the wing, and quick release, wow how excited I was. The first PO he scored some 7 goals if I recall correctly, and thought how could Tort’s send him down the following season to the AHL. In time we got to see why, he doesn’t play a complete game, not sound defensibly, not physical enough on most occasions, and just seems disinterested. Bottom line, I’d like to keep him if he would sign a reasonable contract, but that won’t be the case, so we move on from there. I’ll wish him nothing but the best for his services as he walks out the door, and try to get maximum our return for him!!!!!!!!!!!

      • When you evaluate Kreider, you have to count chemistry and intangibles. He has disappointed us with his point production but his invisible contribution on power play and point shots screening the goalie is noticed by astute observers of game. He is also a mentor to his young teammates. Service to others is the goal of Boston College graduates and he exemplifies that to his teammates. He is an invaluable piece of a rebuilding team.
        He should be named Captain and end the noise around him. Ask ouch Quinn if he agrees with this and he would have to defer to Gorton.
        Memo to Gorton: Keep Kreider

    • Spot on Walt!!! I always thought he was going to be our Clarke Gillies(with a little more talent)…….but it never really happened. The Price hit definitely got into his head. Also, who’s to say his blood clot problem isn’t a major reason for his play. Either way, I think we’ve seen all there is, and sadly, it isn’t enough. Maybe they can get it with a trade.

    • To those who may disagree with me, please look at the Hayes contract, and what his numbers look like this season. Just imagine what those same numbers will look like in a few years. When those few years pass, come back and tell me how glad we aren’t the Flyers who will be stuck carrying the cap hit. Nuff said!!!!!!!

  • I hope you’re right with your hunch, Dave. I don’t know how a contending team gives up a first rounder for a guy who is stuck on 6 goals and plays with vigor sporadically? I’d like to see the Rangers get creative and maybe pair Kreids with one of the underperforming or expendable young players (Howden/Lias/Hajek/Rykov (sp?) to bring back a young tough winger who scores greasy goals.

  • Oh what could have been.

    After he ran over Price in the playoffs he was never the same kind of nasty.

    But he has developed into one heck of a deflector/screener

    He shouldn’t be traded right now , there are other more expensive contracts on the books we should be looking to release ourselves from.

    Besides Panarin there isn’t much depth on the left wing.

    Now defense and goalie we are over stacked. Time to have that talk again with Hank and Staal to see if they will waive their NMC.

    Otherwise that’s 14 million in contracts just sitting there depreciating value every game they play. 21.5 million of you look at the dead cap space due to bad buyouts especially the shattenkirk one. He should have been kept

    The root of the issue is there hasn’t been a rebuild just a shoddy retool unless those guys contracts are off the books.

    If you want to keep them around. Then the rebuild doesn’t progress for two more years on the back of albatross contracts.

  • Dave, I’m with you. I want us to resign Kreider and give him the C. I feel like his play is suffering from his contract uncertainty and the team’s lack of commitment to him, so far. With a new contract and a C, I bet he blossoms.

  • I’d rather that they somehow keep Chris around but realize that it may be difficult. He is a good locker room guy and an intelligent player who can dish it out physically too. Kreider had another very good game last night, and has been playing well in recent weeks after a slow start. Here is an excerpt from an interview just before Thanksgiving. He seems to have his head in the right place:

    “I’ve got to give credit to management, to JD and [GM Jeff Gorton] and [assistant GM Chris Drury] and Quinney for the way they’ve gone about communicating with me and treating me,” Kreider said. “I’ve heard horror stories about what can happen with guys in this situation, they can get frozen out or whatever. Not here.
    “We’re all part of the team. I’m not thinking about the deadline or my contract or what might happen, I’m telling you, I’m not, and I’m not blowing smoke.
    “And with this group, I think it’s easy. I’m trying my best to help our young guys the way the veterans in here helped me when I came into the league. With the talent we have here, with the desire we’re showing and the resilience, I’m focused on the present.
    “I’m focused on doing what I can to help us make the playoffs. That’s what I think about.”

    • I would also prefer that they kept Kreider around, unfortunately the term and the dollars probably don’t make sense for this team — assuming what we see speculated is true, i.e. $7M and 6 or 7 years. If it was 4-5 years @$5.5-6M per, I could see keeping him around and giving him a “C” … JG seems much more gun shy than Sather about giving guys in their late 20’s big money for long terms and who can blame him given how contracts for guys like Girardi, Staal and Shattenkirk turned out. The one exception though is a guy like Panarin, he’s a special talent … just too good to pass up. That’s something Kreids, as much as I like him, just isn’t.

  • At the rate CK is producing, we may be lucky to get a 2nd round pick. He needs to pick up the pace and show the league he still has speed and desire to score.

    Question – Who will be up with the big club first, Lias or Vitali?

    • Except GMs almost always overpay come the trade deadline. If he’s truly the 2nd best forward out there being dangled then you know someone could give up a 1st rounder for him since Taylor Hall will probably generate both a 1st rounder and a damn good prospect.

      • He and everyone else is second tier behind Taylor Hall, but I am guessing there will be some surprises come February. The whole league knows what CK can do and they also know he disappears for weeks at a time.
        Regardless of the timing, he needs to be moved.

  • I’ve bashed Kreider before and to give $7 million to a guy that’s looking for 6/7 years is just not worth it. To pay top dollar for Kreider’s declining years is just plain idiotic. If there was no cap restrictions I’d say no problem, but there is … and while $7 million per is a reasonable salary for him, in this cap era it’s not.

  • Me thinks we should check out our string of past first and second rounders , speedy power forwards that you can usually see in front of the net are not easy to get . Who’s gonna take his place , Howden , Mckegg , Boo , Anderson , or perhaps Sean Day , Ryan Gopp , or maybel Tambellini, enough said !

  • Kreider never lived up to his potential …a 20 goal/50 point guy at best- when he should have been a dominant player . Sadly, the ship on his potential has sailed, he is 28 and at this point he is what he is. I also agree that the hit on Price ruined him, ever since he has visibly been more tentative and less physical which really stunted his growth as a player. I don’t think the NYR should overpay to keep him for “intangibles” (can anyone say Chris Drury part II). On his own, he probably nets similar to Zuc. However, I wonder what a Kreider/Georgiev or a Kreider/Fast trade would return from a team in the hunt . I think thats the endgame on this – packaged together to the right team ( some that come to mind are Edmonton and Colorado) could net something significant, each by themselves would net middling picks or prospects. The team needs to continue the rebuild this season and next and that means subtracting kreider, shedding the bad contracts from the books and adding more depth to the prospect pool. We are probably going to lose a young player to Seattle in 2021 (howden, lemieux, anderson, hajek) and will need to be prepared to backfill the prospect pool for that loss as well.

  • At the end of the day, he is not a 7 million dollar guy and either was Hayes. We have to see these kids develop, it’s more of a business decision.

  • I realize I am not a pro and that likely explains everything. However, I have never understood why a player in Kreider’s position doesn’t make it easy for the Rangers to re-sign him. Get paid but just don’t request a huge bump.

    I mean he has already made $25M in his career.

    Money, money, money….

    • I may be wrong, but I don’t think there’s ever been anything specific said about what it will cost for the Rangers to re-sign him by anybody who actually has any “inside knowledge” of the situation. It’s all been speculation (I know, everything on the internet is true … right?). Personally, I can see him taking a home team discount. He’s young, smart, and seems to like New York, so he might even be willing to sign up for a shorter term than 7 years, so he can get on with his life after hockey.

  • Trade Kreider at the deadline, hope that Hall goes much sooner than that, take that money saved and give it straight to Tony DeAngelo.

    • Hall pulled from the line up last night, even after participating in pre-game warm ups, so it looks like that you will get your wish.

  • Package up Kreider with Howden and a 4th for a solid NHL RW or D plus a 2nd. Call up Lias and move him to the LW on 2nd line to see how he would do as his value is dropping.
    If we get a D in the trade, we have a player when Smith/Staal go. With that said, we do need more NHL winger prospects. We need to also give Lettieri one more shot on a scoring line because we never gave Ryan Graves a fair chance and now he leads the NHL in +/- rating..unreal

    • Vinni Lettieri is an undersized forward; Ryan Graves is a 6’5”, 220 defenseman. Vinni has already had his shot with NYR—he’s played 46 games over 2 years and has scored 2 goals, despite being a goal scorer at the AHL level. Process that for a second—an alleged goalscorer, with 2 goals in 46 games. Lettieri proved he’s an AHL lifer.

      Graves never got into a Rangers pro lineup to show what he could do. Something else we can blame the Marc Staal contract for.

  • oh, and time to call up Shesterkin and rotate 3 goalies….maybe Hank can help coach him or maybe Hank will ask for a trade to a cup contender. I don’t think trading Georgiev is the right move at all,,,Gorton, don’t mess this one up.

    • Georgiev is a goner, at some point, so they want to play him to get the trade value up.

      Toronto, Carolina, Vegas, Colorado, and Calgary should be at the top of the list for trade.

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