So how bad is Tanner Glass going to be?

August 12, 2014, by
Well, he can do this.

Well, he can do this.

If you’ve been coming here for a while, then you know we very rarely call out management decisions. It’s not our style. We question, we find positives, we find reasons, and while we may not agree with a transaction, we discuss and move on. This is one of those rare occurrences where I tried, but could not. But don’t take that the wrong way, there’s still plenty of discussion to be had over Tanner Glass.

Look, I understand why Alain Vigneault wanted him. I understand why Glen Sather wanted him. He’s a good skater, he’s fairly fast, he’s familiar with AV’s style, he kills penalties, and he wins fights (which doesn’t really mean anything in relation to wins). The Rangers had a big, big hole on the fourth line when they lost both Brian Boyle and Derek Dorsett, and they wanted Glass for the aforementioned reasons. I get it.

But as we did with Lee Stempniak (a signing we love here), it’s time to take a look into the deeper numbers for Glass.

Looking at his WOWYs (with or without you) from last year, which depicts his influence on his teammates’ puck possession numbers while on and off the ice, Glass was an absolute tire fire (graphs courtesy of Hockey Analysis):

glass cf wowy

Reminder, you want to have your teammates in the lower right corner, or at least on the right half of the chart. A circle on the lower right corner means Glass drove puck possession with that player while on the ice, but the player struggled without him. A circle on the right side of the graph means that Glass at least drove puck possession. Notice the big white area on the right side of the chart? That means Glass was a net negative while on the ice with every single teammate. Even worse is that a good portion of his teammates actually faired better without Glass (top half of the chart). He was the worst player in the league in driving puck possession, relative to his team/teammates.

I know what your argument is going to be: Corsi doesn’t measure “heart, grit, puck battles, and corner battles.” You are correct that Corsi doesn’t measure the first two. But riddle me this: If you win a puck battle or a corner battle, and you come away with the puck, doesn’t that mean you have puck possession?

Puck possession isn’t your thing? Let’s look at goals, with Glass again aiming to be on the lower right corner of the chart:

glass gf wowy2

The same problem exists here as well. So, the team isn’t scoring while he’s on the ice either.

One-year samples not enough? Let’s look at his three-year samples. Every single player had better numbers away from Glass. Same goes for his five-year samples.

I know your next argument: Glass isn’t here to score goals, he’s here to prevent them. Well, we have a stat for that too. This one measure the percentage of goals scored versus goals allowed while on the ice. It’s called GF%. Above 50% is good, below 50% is bad. Glass had a 35.8% goals-for ratio (20th-worst in the league), which was -16.5% in relative terms (10th-worst in the league).

Corsi doesn’t measure everything, and no one ever said it does. Glass does offer some positives to a team looking to fill holes after being decimated in free agency. But the numbers here don’t lie, Glass is a massive anchor on the fourth line, and he’s attempting to fill a hole on a fourth line that was one of the best in the league last season.

I hope I’m wrong.

Categories : Players


  1. Mike K says:

    I don’t think signing Glass was such a bad move. I think signing him to a multi-year deal was. There’s nothing wrong with bringing a player in like him for depth, even with the cap crunch (though you wish the hit were for less). But signing a player to a multi-year contract generally means you envision him as a regular starter.

    • Puck Luck @Centerman21 says:

      The Rangers obviously weren’t the only team in on Glass. That is why he got the 3rd year and that should show his worth to a team and locker room. I think with all the good possession players and AV’s strategy he’ll be fine. The Pens have some of the best possession players in the game. That’s why his relative stats are so bad. He will improve with Dom Moore and whoever plays RW on that 4th line. Has to be a good solid skater on RW.

      • Dave says:

        His one-year numbers are with the Pens, but his three and five year numbers include the Jets and Canucks.

    • Jake says:

      Agree with you it’s the number of years that kills me. Not very happy with the amount of $ we gave him either. But I don’t mind him at all heck it will be nice having somewhat of an enforcer on the team. Just wish it would’ve been a one year 1 mil deal.

  2. Walt says:

    The guy can be a good PKer, and is tough as nails, I’m giving him the thumbs up, and see how he pans out. He is a hell of a lot better than Asham was, and he wins fights. I would have prefered Car bomb, but they let him go, so give this guy a chance!

    • Puck Luck @Centerman21 says:

      I liked Carcillo too. He held his cool for the most part in his time here. He played hockey too. Wasn’t just a banger/fighter. Glass will have better possession stats under AV. I know he played in other cities but Pittsburgh was a 3 line
      2-1-2 forechecking team under Bylsma. Same strategy that Torts used in NY. The core guys and the players that remain from last season have a year and 25 playoff games under their belt. I expect even better team possession than last season. Which I think was about 52% on the year. I think Glass will go with the flow and at least not hurt the team in that reguard.

  3. Leatherneckinlv says:

    I totally disagree that fights do not win you games. A great win in a fight does change the momentum of a game quite often. When a team can use a fight to shift the momentum, trust me coaches will use that tool in the box. Even a team full of goons won 2 Stanley Cups and were in 3 straight Cup Finals. Fighting is and will always be part of the game. What I do not like is the staged fighting. The kind of fights that occur right after the drop of the puck.
    Anyone think the Kings were scared of the Rangers in the SCF’s? They had the size and skill to play any kind of game the Rangers were going to play. What did that mean for the Kings? one word, confidence. Now mind you there is also a difference between a Adam Graves over Dale Purinton. Even Purinton had a spot on the team because virtually every team had 1 pure enforcer. The game has changed where the enforcers today do have skill. Colton Orr was a great enforcer but he could play the game.
    Tanner Glass was the only pick up we had who had size. This team lost size and skill in Pouliot and as a team lacked size as it was. I like the rest of you was surprised at this signing, however I will reserve judgement on him until he has 25 games under his belt as a RANGER. What I do want to see is the Rangers adding size to the mix as well as a gifted Center.
    To me MSL, Hagelin, Zuccarello, (Fast and Bourque) are redundant just as our defense was and still is though Dan Boyle did bring a skill set the Defensive Corps Lacked. McIlrath will soon change the other skill set lacking on the blueliners.

    • Dave says:

      The numbers say they don’t influence the outcome of the game in a significant manner. I trust the numbers.

      • Leatherneckinlv says:

        How can numbers or stats even figure into that? This is not a situation stats or numbers can discern. This is about energy, not fancy stats. I remember watching a game between the Rangers and Washington late 70’s. Rangers were down 6-1 late 2nd . I believe it was EJ who started a fight. bang Maloney scored late 2nd. 1st minute Marois fought and bang Rangers tied the game. Add another fight in between goals. It all started with the EJ fight as EJ demolished his opponent. How do fancy stats explain that?

        • Spozo says:

          A game that happened 40 years ago is your argument for how fights affect the outcome of a game?

          • Leatherneckinlv says:

            No Spozo, just using that game as an example….It happened many times…Walt mentioned another one as well. It still happens, you want to tell me if you are at the Garden and two players fight, the fans and players look away in disgust? I think not. A good fight electrifies the building. Why is it when teams have the lead the fighters on the winning team usually decline to fight? It is has been and will be part of the game

            • Dave says:

              Using momentum here as the basis of your argument, then momentum goes both ways. Winning a fight doesn’t always swing momentum, sometimes just dropping the gloves in the heat of the moment does. So, momentum doesn’t just help the Rangers, it can hurt them too.

              I like fighting as much as the next guy, but I want a guy who can play over a guy who can fight. A guy that can do both is the best. Guys like Iginla (obviously not 2014 Iginla, but you know what I mean here) are the guys I want, not Glass.

              • Frankie 4-Fingers says:

                I’m just interested in what constitutes “winning” a fight in today’s NHL? Yeah, it gets the fans up. A little authentic emotion is great. Not the WWF stuff. Thats stupid.

                A lot of pushing and pulling, punching visors, gassing out, and either falling down, or being separated.

                There is no winner in fights. By the virtue of it happening gets a barn lively. But don’t dilute yourself into some sense that someone wins. 9-10 there is no winner. Just gets the place going. But it is not very often that I see the spark that one team gets so bandied about. All it usually does is up to the tempo of the game. Generally speaking it makes for more intense hockey.

                Thats it…

        • Dave says:

          Read the linked article. It’ll explain it. Also, cherry picking on one fight that you think altered the game doesn’t make your argument or disprove mine.

  4. Walt says:

    Agree 100% with you, and just one thought, anyone remember Dale Rolf?? That fight changed the entire game, and series against Filthadelphia in the cup run. Enough said!!!!!

    • Rangers Fan in Boston says:

      That was a long time ago, the game has changed. Fighting just isn’t as much a part of the game now, nor does impact games like it used to. The goon, as a viable member of a hockey team, is an endangered species, effectively extinct with a few exceptions.

      • Dave says:

        This is the best comment I’ve read on the impact of fighting in a long time. You hit the nail on the head.

        • Joe says:

          I agree to a certain extent with fighting changing momentum but where I think Glass could be really effective is that spark for the team. Skating hard and throwing together some big hits.

          I feel every other team has that line or player that can go out, get the crowd going, and get his team pumped by skating hard and throwing some big hits.

        • TxRanger says:

          Dave, that’s BS. How may times did this site praise Prust for his fighting (even though he often lost) and willingness to stick up for his teammates? And then miss him when he left?

          How often did this site wish that Boyle would scrap and play physical?

          Now that you have a guy that will fight, play physical, and stick up for teammates, you want to question the value of a player like that?

          This is so hypocritical.

          • Dave says:

            It is also possible to have your views on certain subjects altered over the course of two years. The more I look at the numbers for Prust (, the more I realize he may have been a tad over rated. I didn’t start reading up on the new stats available until 2013, so yes, my opinion can change as I become more informed. It’s a learning process.

            And we never said Boyle should fight. We specifically said that if you want him to fight, then you don’t know the type of player he is. Here’s the proof:

            • TxRanger says:

              That’s a pretty cop-out response, Dave. “I had a change of heart so you can’t challenge the things I said, and I wrote a piece about Boyle once after a lot of complaints about him so you’re wrong.”

              You’re starting to become a bully here to anyone who challenges your opinion. You’re getting a little out of touch. You’re calling people’s thoughts and opinions idiotic. That’s not responsible of someone running a blog. You’ll lose readership with that attitude.

              This isn’t the first time I’ve come after you for your bullying. Its not fair to the readers of this blog nor to the other contributors here as you are ruining their credibility as well.

              Dave, this article is trash. You’re bashing a guy who obviously works hard, sticks up for his teammates, and has earned a spot in The Show. He hasn’t even played a game yet, and you’re selling him out. That’s a disgrace. I mean the fact that you actually took time to write this is insane.

              • Dave says:

                I never said you were wrong. You called me hypocritical so I provided my answer. I never once said Boyle should fight. Now you may be confusing me with someone else here, which is definitely possible because we don’t all share the same opinions. And I’m not allowed to re-evaluate my stance on something when new information is presented to me? Seems pretty short-sighted if I didn’t re-evaluate.

                I am not bullying anyone in here. I’m extremely opinionated and passionate. I’m also stubborn, which I’m sure you’ve realized by now, since you’ve been here a long time.

                The only time I’ve ever called a comment idiotic was in regards to FC’s comments on Boogaard, which were insensitive and, well, idiotic. We don’t tolerate that stuff here, and I gave him a fair warning. If he does it again, I will ban him, the same way the Banter banned him.

                This article is my opinion backed up with facts from the stats. You are more than welcome to disagree with me, and I have at no time bullied anyone who disagreed with me here.

                You guys are allowed to question my posts regularly, and you just called this one trash. Am I not allowed to question your responses?

                You called his post trash because I used facts? I also acknowledged that he’s a good skater and kills penalties, but that doesn’t disprove the point I’m making here.

                Did you not notice the bottom where I said I hope I’m wrong? I really do. I want this team to win, but I don’t think this signing helped them. I think it hurt them. I’m entitled to that opinion, and I backed it up with facts.

              • TxRanger says:

                Dave, the only facts that I see here are that you think you’re right, and anyone who thinks otherwise from your opinion is wrong.

                Your usage of the word stubborn here is interesting. You are aware that the definition of stubborn means you refuse to change your opinion in spite of good arguments and reasons to do so, right? Stubbornness is one of the worst traits a person can have, especially someone among the staff of an otherwise objective blog.

                Yes, you are not a member of the NY Times or another real news outlet, so you are not bound by any obligation and are therefore allowed to be subjective. Sure. But your attitude is costing this site readers. This site, because of your idiotic articles, is watching its credibility wane day after day. And at the end of the day, because you are not a real sports writer and have no real qualifications to be one, credibility, Dave, is all you have. Don’t blow it for everyone, Dave.

                Your argument stating that you later have come to realize that Prust was overrated, well now, how are this site’s readers supposed to interpret that comment? That you don’t know what your talking about? What kind of credible sports writer doesn’t know what he’s talking about? How many more comments and insights that you make will you later back track on?

                Don’t blow it, Dave.

              • Dave says:

                The facts I presented are in the post. Charts, stats, etc. Those are the facts I use to back up my opinion.

                Disagreement is fine. You can hate on the title of the post all you want. But calling the post trash, because I used facts to backup my argument in the post, is short sighted.

                Every credible sports writer recognizes that their initial opinion may have been wrong. During Prust’s stay in NY, I did not notice the stats that disagreed with what I saw on the ice.

                Eyes lie to you, lie to me, lie to everyone. I started using the stats available to help with my opinions, and sometimes the numbers disagreed with what I saw. In those cases, as with Prust, I took a step back and started thinking about why.

                With Prust, we all loved him. He was the blue collar guy in the lineup that we hadn’t seen in a while. With that comes an unintentional bias as fans to love everything he does. That’s human nature. It’s why I use stats to back up what I initially see.

                I’m not saying he wasn’t a valuable member of the Black and Blueshirts. I’m just saying he might have been a bit over rated. That entire 2011-2012 team overachieved, they weren’t skilled enough or deep enough for the run they made. But that’s why the game is played, they made us believe, and it was an amazing ride.

                I’m fully within my right to analyze based on more information presented two years later. You can look at it as flipping sides, that’s your opinion. I look at it as re-evaluating based on new evidence presented to me.

                If you think this questions my credibility, so be it. I think it enhances my credibility, as it helps me base my opinions on a combination of stats (quantitative analysis) and what I see (qualitative analysis). When the two types of analyses don’t agree, I evaluate why. Generally, the numbers have been right.

                Regarding Glass, you seem to be ignoring the second paragraph and the last paragraph in this post. I acknowledged what Glass can bring to the ice, and I acknowledge that these stats aren’t everything. I also say that I hope I’m wrong. Is it fair to me that you seem to be ignoring those paragraphs, and only seem to be interested in the title of the post?

                Again, feel free to disagree with my opinion. But please ensure you don’t just read the post title and don’t read the analysis performed. It would be an incredible disservice to this discussion.

                Look, it’s very obvious you care about the content here, and I greatly appreciate that. You’ve been here since the beginning, and your readership, along with everyone else here, is greatly valued. Your comments here show how passionate you are about this blog.

                I will try not to blow it, but I also will not sacrifice my free will to write based on both quantitative and qualitative analysis. I think both types are required for a site to have strong content.

              • TxRanger says:

                Dave, thank you for your candid reply. Addressing the second half of your article (which I read before any post): Any mention of the good parts of Glass’ game you make have a negative tone beneath them and are condescending. You call him an anchor, man.

                It just saddens me to see this blog trash a Rangers player, especially one who hasn’t even suited up for the team yet. Your article just doesn’t have any sound logical basis. Yes, his stats with previous teams were not good, but the teams he played for were successful. Pittsburgh won the division last year, and he was on the Canucks team that made it to the Stanley Cup Final. The logical conclusion there is that, despite what numbers say, Tanner Glass is not a detriment to his team’s success.

                Guys that are not good enough to be in the NHL are not in the NHL. This is a bottom line business. The moment you do not offer anything positive to your team, (i.e. Wade Redden), you’re gone. Tanner Glass is here. His old coach in Vancouver thought it was a good idea to bring him in. What’s the logical conclusion there?

                Is it that Tanner Glass is a bad player? No. I think if you took your own advice you preached about people’s misguided disdain for Boyle, telling them to see in him what he is, and that they would then appreciate him, well, I think you yourself need to apply that same advice on your own analysis of Tanner Glass.

                Stop putting so much faith in stats. Obviously Prust who you now say was overrated was according to stats, but stats don’t know anything. Prust was a great player for us who brought things to this team that stats just cannot measure. Here’s an example of how bad stats are: Tony Romo, the Cowboys quarterback, has great stats, he’s a good fantasy QB, but the guy sucks in real life. On the other hand, Giants QB Eli Manning is not a guy you’d want on your fantasy team, his stats are not that great, but the guy has won two Super Bowls. Stats-smats I say.

          • NYRANGER PHIL says:

            Whats really funny is BOYLE HAD THE size and everytime he went in the corner the smaller guy kncked him down and took the puck. I don;t think Boyle is as big as a loss as everyone is putting on him. He was great on the penalty kill but thats where it ends. His face off wins where ok but nothing special.

            • Becky says:

              He only found his size during the playoffs. 82 games of wimping away while smaller guys fought the battles he should have and crashed the net more. I don’t miss him.

              • Dave says:

                Boyle is the kind of guy you let go because of price and then spend a few years looking to replace at a good price.

  5. Mattstake says:

    let’s give the guy a chance before we crucify him. we haven’t seen a single shift yet. they need some toughness, dorsett was not the answer, nor was carcillo.

    • Rangers Fan in Boston says:

      AV has earned the benefit of the doubt, but the post clearly shows Glass has been one of the worst everyday players in the sport the last few years.

  6. Frank Cerbone says:

    Glass is not a goon; NEVER has had a 100 PM season.

    What Glass does bring to the table is a guy JUST SHORT of 6-0, really maybe 5-11 1/2 who is an outstanding body checker and really hard puncher.
    Guys like Prust & Carcillo, especially Dorsett just have problems with both playing the body and keeping their mouths shut.

    Glass just goes about his business with his skating & quickness. He is agile enough to catch up to people, hits them, punches rather than wrestles, and goes DIRECTLY to the penalty box. His beating/punishing bigger players inspires his team mates. And both he and Stempniak s of Dartmouth; so the term goon doesn’t really apply.

    • Jeff P says:

      He might be a good skater and an outstanding puncher, he’s just bad at hockey.

      • Frank Cerbone says:

        Nash had like 11 hits last season in about 20 min per gm.

        Glass had like 250 hits like in about 11 min per gm.

        Nash scored more goals, made more money

        Glass plays a necessary physical role, is real good at it, doesn’t make a lot of money.

        Both players I have heard are overpaid, but I don’t think Glass is a candidate for the next buyout; maybe in 2016.

    • Rangers Fan in Boston says:

      Well it’s a good thing he goes directly to the penalty box…

  7. mattimar says:

    Its ok to have one tougher guy on the team irrespective of the corsi stats etc. We are talking about 1 fourth line player..the bigger question is how to replace the top six scoring..

  8. cv19 says:

    He seems like a guy who’s a pain in the ass to play against. That’s the impression I got when he played against us. He was noticed. Seems like a reasonable gamble.
    I know Pittsburgh lacked depth but he did get 12 minutes per.

  9. Walt says:

    The difference is this guy can skate, and PK as well. Yes the game has changed, but we need someone to defend our whimpy guys when we play the likes of the Flyers!! Check out the teams that won the cup the last few years, they can skate, and drop the gloves. The days of the goons are gone, and the game is better for it, but there is a place for a guy like Glass!!!

  10. Spozo says:

    Well done Mr Sather. It’s a good offseason where his most controversial move is the acquisition of a fourth line winger. Bravo.

  11. Frank Cerbone says:

    Don’t know much about the ICorsi/IFenwick stuff, but I went to the “Hockey Analysis” website & saw that Glass had higher ICorsi IFenwick numbers per 60 min than Prust, Orr, John Scott, Sestito, Boll, and Clune.

    An aside, MDZ had really high ICori/IFenwick numbers per 60 min, really high.

    As people have said long before me; there are lies, damn lies, then there are statistics.

    Hope nobody runs any of our top players, but if they do, hopefully Glass will take care of business.

    I tell you when Probert was running around elbowing smaller Ranger players, 5-9″ Domi stepped on the ice and hit him with a right that sent the 6-3 Probert to the locker room for repairs for the rest of the game.

    Same goes with Staten Island’s Nick Fotiu going after Paul Holmgren & Behn Wilson & beating both of them. From then on Holmgren fought Fotiu a few more times-with both helmet & face mask. In fact, Fotiu said he was thinking about coming out with a can opener to go after Holmgren. Schultz was nowhere to be found; I think he was in Bolivia somewhere.

    Glass is neither Fotiu nor Domi, but with a McIlrath or Bissonnete & Glass on the ice, Rangers would play about a foot taller.

    You want to talk about how much bigger each Ranger played once they knew either Fotiu or Domi was on the ice, watch UTube.

    • Dave says:

      So if you don’t know much about it, why are you attempting to comment on it?

      Wouldn’t the better approach be to ask these questions to those who understand them, and then make your own opinion?

      No one says you have to like them, but to be a part of the conversation you have to at least understand them. This isn’t the era of the Probert’s and the Domi’s anymore. That was 20 years ago. The game has changed.

      • Frank Cerbone says:


        If that is the Dave/Goldthorpe guy whose idea of debating/commentating on an issue is to label my posts “insane/retarded/stupid” then “blacklist” me from their blog. Well, I don’t need to reply to your comment

        Your post saying I had been “blacklisted” was certainly a hilarious topic of conversation down here in Fort Myers, FL..

        • Dave says:

          You’ve been commenting on the blog for how long? And you don’t know who this Dave is? Sigh.

          And just so you know, I threatened to ban you from here for your idiotic comments regarding Derek Boogaard. It’s the same reason why Joe banned you from the Banter. Please don’t misinterpret.

          • Frank Cerbone says:


            Still using the defamatory, inflammatory words like “idiot, stupid, insane”

            Guess I’ll do another screen shot of your comments.

            Can’t win an argument, so just insult your opponent.

            Your just too easy and Fortunato as well.

            Do your advertisers know you make “personal” statements about people you don’t agree with?

            And as for Blueshirt Banter, they have no credibility after the Boogard fiasco and are now off Yahoo and are part of SB Nation.

            • Dave says:

              Your comments on Boogaard were idiotic. I never called you an idiot. Again, don’t misinterpret.

              Banter was never a part of Yahoo, they were always a part of SBN, which has a partnership with Yahoo. I’d recommend researching this stuff before you comment on it.

              • Frank Cerbone says:

                It is never good to speak ill of the deceased.

                I just felt Sather did a terrible signing, and when that player was spotted out clubbing on nites the team played and he was not dressed (disabled), I and others mentioned it on Blueshirt Banter.

                Blueshirt Banter ignored our findings later and “banned/blacklisted me”.

                Insensitive, not idiotic, to speak ill of the dead, but that player was alive when we were seeing him partying on game nites and complaining to you guys on Blueshirt Banter.

                Maybe, he would still be alive if someone told Sather what was going on with that player on game nites. Maybe he would have been forced into rehab.

                Interesting, huh?

  12. mikeyyy says:

    Benoit pouliot was one I wasn’t expecting what we got. Anything can happen.

  13. flatbush says:

    Numbers, graphs and the like have some value but its just points you in a direction but action will ultimately give you the result of this move. I compare the charts to the guys who are the thinkers in a board room vs the guys who have to make it work. Actions always speak louder. It could go either way furthermore this move will not make or break us. Our “stars” need to shine and still more concerned if we really have a #1 center. Point is; “its the guys we have in the room and use of the personnel by AV. Overall I think we are better than last year but we’ll see.

  14. TxRanger says:

    They didn’t sign this guy to light up goalies. They didn’t sign this guy to feed people the puck. They didn’t sign this guy to carry the puck into the offensive zone.

    Get over that. See in this guy what he is, and then you will be happy with the signing. He obviously has got game, or he’d be out of the league. AV and Sather feel like what he offers to the team is a necessary component. Stop ragging on this dude because he is not a Hagelin. It just makes me question the credibility of this site more and more. He hash’t even suited up once and y’all are already dismissing him.

  15. Kevin mccarthy says:

    He’s a RANGER now he will bleed blue give him a chance! Don’t crucify him before he even plays a game for us. As other people have pointed out your charts don’t show him playing with us If you want to pull out you pitchfork and torches do it after the season has started. Without the backing of the fans he will be a loss like you’re pegging him as. I for one think he will surprise everyone.

  16. Kevin mccarthy says:

    It would also be great if Nick Fotiu could come back to give him pointers

  17. Bronx Yankee36 says:

    We need Tanner Glass about as much as we needed Park and Ratelle for Espo(a/k/a Frank Flounderfoot) and Vadnais (a/k/a “Turtle”) which is light years ahead of 28 year old Captain for 38 year old used-to-be-but-not-anymore, and yes, it’s tragic about his Mother but we gave away 10 years with huge upside for down-sider with who knows how many MONTHS left in the tank! That’s the equivalent of Fotiu for Orr and 3 draft choices. As Barry Fitzgerald said in “The Quiet Man”, ” The Borgias could do better. “