InjuriesIrresponsible Rumormongering

Quick notes: Staal/Girardi surgeries; Gorton/Allaire

Some quick notes that broke over the weekend:

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  • Good news all around. Both Allaire & Gorton have had a lot to do with the Rangers success. I may be wrong but I’m not a big Ulfie fan & I’d like to see Beuke take over that job because he has been doing a great great job with The Undertaker, you know the guy that all Rangers fan think is a bust because he’s made a slow progression. How long did it take Hedman to evolve into a top D? D-men just ake longer and that’s a fact. Toughest position to play in the NHL, even tougher than goalie. For the latter all you have to be these days is huge and have a great D in front of you. Like Bishop. Guys like Henrik & Fleury are the cream of the crop.

  • I thought the yotes had the other allaire. Or did he leave and thats why mike Smith crashed back to earth?

  • You are definitely right that defensemen take longer, but the comparison to Hedman is not really comparable. Hedman was drafted by the Bolts in 2009 as the second overall pick after having huge success in Sweden and never played a day of minor league hockey. He was able to learn and grow on TB teams that weren’t very good to progress to where he is now–one of the best defensemen in the league.

    A better comparison might be to comparable first round defenseman from the 2010 draft-Erik Gubranson of the Panthers, Cam Fowler of the Ducks, Brandon Gormley of the Coyotes, Derek Forbort of the Kings, Jarred Tinordi of the Habs and Mark Pysyk of the Sabres.

    Gubranson made it to the Panthers for the 2011-12 season. Fowler got to Anaheim prior to the start of the 2010-11 season. Gormley broke in with the Coyotes last season. Forbort got called up this season. Tinordi and Pysyk have been up and down with Montreal and Buffalo respectively. But ALL have been on much faster tracks than McIlrath.

    McIlrath has played a lot of AHL hockey thus far. (by comparison, Gubranson and Fowler played a combined two games in the AHL). Guys that spend that much time developing can sometimes raise red flags. It could indicate that the player is, to use a baseball analogy–4A. Better perhaps than his AAA competition but not quite good enough to make it to the Majors.

    None of us are scouts. Few of us have seen McIlrath play beyond brief snippets. There is a high probability the serious knee injury he suffered slowed his progress. The question is did it slow his progress to the point that he will ever be what the Rangers had hoped for?

    Is it fair to call him a bust at this point? Probably not. But given where he is after five seasons, he has a much greater probability of being a bust gong forward that being a star. Five years is an extraordinarily long time, even for a defenseman.

    As I said before, I would guess this summer is pretty much it for him.

  • I’m not looking for McIlrath to be a star. All I’d like him to be is a dependable, PHYSICAL, stay at home D-man who can hit opposing forwards without taking himself out of position as well as clear the crease.

    His right-handed and cap friendly. I don’t care if he ever scores a goal. I feel the Rangers can use a ‘Buek’ type D-man.

    • HEY JERRY, I echo your words on Mcilrath, you are spot on..The fact that he can fight, gives us a legit Heavyweight , a bonus that can not be overlooked!!

      • Hey Bobby,
        Thanks, I appreciate your views. I am not a fan of dropping the gloves for the sake of dropping the gloves. That said, it’s nice to know that if someone takes a run at a skilled player they will have to answer to McIlrath. The Rangers can use some snarl in the line-up, both at D and up front.
        I would be more interested in McIlrath being a good positional player who hits like a ton of bricks. Don’t get me wrong, I am glad he is a legit heavyweight, but want him to use that attribute ONLY when needed and for good reason.

        • Ok…..just because I enjoy throwing a monkey wrench into the conversation….. 🙂

          Lets say Jerry is right. McIlrath won’t be a star but perhaps a dependable player. How do we classify the success of the pick? If he makes the team, throws his body around, becomes a fan favorite…….but turns out to be just a dependable physical player and nothing more….is that the description of a 1st round pick that was number 10 overall five years ago?

          I’m not saying that any of those qualities are bad things. Agree with both of you, we can use those qualities IF (big IF) he can handle the speed of the NHL game. But isn’t that the description of a player you’d draft in the third or fourth round? Are we saying that at this point, we will settle for that?

          So at the end of the day, isn’t that the very definition of a bust?

          • He was never selected to be a puck moving defenseman…had that been the case we would have selected Fowler…He was selected for just what he represents…and this team direly needs….to impose his will in the crease and the occasional fights….raaah

          • I never said that he should be a puck moving defenseman. I was responding to Jerry’s point that he’s not looking for McIlrath to be a star. Shouldn’t the number ten pick in the draft be selected because he’s expected to be a star? Someone who’s among the best defenseman in the league? And if not, if he’s a 3rd pair defenseman (which at this point is about the most anyone thinks he can be), then isn’t that a bust?

          • He was a total need pick and the best at what he did that year….a few teams wanted him

          • I love this site, I hope Mcilrath makes it, Time is no longer on his side. He was a top 10 pick, when the pick was made, the word was he was a bruising defenseman who was the meanest player in that draft, BY FAR. A need that was and still is on top of the NYR priority list. That being said, McSorley, Beukeboom, Daneyko, Samuelson , all made it and were not the greatest skaters in the world.

          • I love this site too! You guys have a great insight! The back and forth is tremendous and really, there’s no wrong answer. I’ll just say this. If it was indeed a need pick, and the pick was made over more talented players (which it appears it was….Fowler, Tarsenko), then that was huge mistake. A number one is supposed to have the potential to become a star. Clearly, that’s off the table with McIlrath. Now we just hope he can make the NHL at all and be a 3rd pair guy. That screams “bust” to me, even if he does help the Rangers or another team next year. Right up there with Michael Del Zotto!

            As for Bobby’s point, it’s valid, but the guys you all mentioned were drafted in the 80s. The game is very different today–much more speed oriented, not as much fighting. It’s still physical but teams no longer value the guys that pile up PIMs the way they once did. I totally recognize the value of a physical player, but in the modern NHL, he HAS to be able to skate, at least to a certain level. (I know, I know, Girardi doesn’t skate well either, but he is an outlier–his hockey instincts and courage are just off the charts in my view–even though he snow angels! :)).

            And of the four, McSorley I believe wasn’t even drafted (free agent I think) and Samuelson was a 3rd round pick. Daneyko and Beukeboom were first rounders but late first rounders.

            I realize it’s easy to second guess now, but all we have is hindsight. And hindsight suggests you could have found someone like that later in the draft. When you have the only time in a decade when you have a top ten pick, they didn’t make it count. Bad decision. And through that lens, unless he defies the odds and becomes a top tier player, given what was expected, hard to call the pick anything other than a bust–even if the kid does make it as a 3rd pair defenseman.

    • to do so, he needs to be given a chance in the line up. He’ll make mistakes, but AV needs to see how he performs and ease him in.
      Being send down after one game with some mistakes isn’t going to teach him much

  • EDDIE, EDDIE, EDDIE, you know your hockey, and I value your opinion . You do open the eyes of many on this site. TALENT wise Mcilrath does not measure up to the picks that came after him, and yes being a top 10 pick is a major commitment. I hope the kid is given a fair chance this year, its make or break for him. I will play devils advocate and remind you of another bruising defenseman we had in our hands, that we gave up on, and he went on to have an awesome career, do you remember Mark Tinordi. One of the worst trades in Rangers history.

    • Bobby-

      Ironic that you mention Mark Tinordi in comparison to McIlrath, since his son Jarred was part of the comparison I was making earlier in this thread. Another big bodied defenseman drafted in the first round that is still trying to find his way into a consistent place on an NHL team.

      As for that trade with Minnesota back in the late 80s….yup, it was brutal. Tinordi turned out to be a real good player. Rangers got Brian Lawton back. Awful trade. Guess who else the Rangers gave up? A kid in their system named Mike Sullivan, who would later return to the Rangers as assistant coach under Torts!

      Good point, although I will point out that the difference between Mark Tinordi and McIlrath–Tinordi was an undrafted free agent, so little was expected and he exceeded expectations. Second, once he was signed , he was in the NHL a year later. Very different than McIlrath, who we’ve been waiting on for five years, but still, you’re right, a cautionary tale.

      • EDDIE, you seem to go way back and on the subject of Ranger history. We all suffered and if not for the 94 cup team, we might be in permanent straight jackets. I always thought grit and toughness were a missing ingredient from the great 70’s teams. I will never forget the beating Dale Rolfe took at the hands of Dave Schultz’s. I know it was the 7th game vs Flyers 74 or 75??. That beating , while his teammates stood around and watched, haunted me for years, so much so that I called WFAN , many years later, I believe they had Sal ( red light) Massina ( former announcer) on as a guest, when I vented my frustration, he reminded me they had some tough guys on that team ( Vic Hatfield, Ted Irvine, Ron Harris ) but being it was a 7th game, no one wanted to be the 3rd man in, I did not agree with his answer. What are your memories of that game, that series and that Ranger team ??

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