The Rebuild Is Pointless if the Kids Don’t Play

March 1, 2018, by

Yesterday, Dave touched upon the necessity of continuing the tear down until it is full and complete.  That involves, first and foremost, firing Alain Vigneault and installing a head coach whose strength is developing young players.  It also requires patience from management to stick with that coach through some rough patches.

But hockey is ultimately about the players.  The Rangers have fallen short in the Henrik Lundqvist era because they never had a truly elite skater (or two) to build around. With a glut of draft picks this summer and beyond, the Rangers have significantly increased their chances of landing that player (or players).

The key organizational shift that needs to take place is management’s attitude towards young players.  Generally speaking, the team has chosen to play it conservatively when it comes to development and integration into the lineup.  While this strategy was understandable while the Rangers were in their window of contention, it wouldn’t serve any purpose now.

The way the Rangers handled Pavel Buchnevich provides a prime example of what the next iteration of the team must avoid doing.  Buchnevich played parts of four seasons in the KHL before making the move to North America last year (his age 21 season).  The rest is history: a flying start in the NHL was neutralized by injury, and Buchnevich’s season was largely burned after his return due to questionable (at best) usage by AV.

A similar situation looms on the horizon.  The Rangers acquired Yegor Rykov in the Michael Grabner trade last week.  Rykov is already in his third season of professional hockey, playing in what is widely accepted as the second best hockey league in the world.  Rykov will play one more season in the KHL before coming to North America (his age 22 season, already one year older than Buchnevich).

Given the widely accepted data on player-aging curves, by not starting a player as a full-time NHLer until his age 22 or 23 season, the Rangers are ostensibly wasting one or two peak years as they slowly integrate him into the lineup.  That should not happen any longer.

Of course, more goes into these decisions than simply looking at a player’s age.  Players aren’t robots, and each guy’s adjustment to the NHL will be handled on a case-by-case basis.  But the Rangers need to seriously consider fast-tracking key young players in order to find out if they actually have impact players or not.  Long story short, players like Steven Kampfer, Cody McLeod and David Desharnais should be nowhere near the Rangers roster next year.

Entry-level contract start dates aside (those should be considered, but that’s not really the point of this post), the Rangers should prioritize getting their young players as many minutes as possible next season.  It’s possible that if they do that, they could accelerate the process of rebuilding the roster

"The Rebuild Is Pointless if the Kids Don't Play", 5 out of 5 based on 35 ratings.
Categories : Musings


  1. SalMerc says:

    Good argument IF the players are NHL ready. Chicken and egg thing here, but some can cut it and some cannot.

    I agree that we need to get them in the lineup sooner rather than later, but we don’t need a team of 22 point players. Hopefully on June 22nd, we have some real potential stars on the roster.

    The coaching staff needs replacement.

    • Todd N says:

      Not only do we need to see a new staff on the NHL team, but the minor league team needs a major overhaul .

      • D C says:

        They got it last year, new GM, coach, etc.
        They’ve responded well, placed dead last in 16-17. This year they’re battling for a playoff spot.

  2. Walt says:


    Tend to agree with your post, as I am a big fan of the young players who hustle to get playing time, and hungry to stay in the bigs.

    Having said that, the team has decided to go that route, I’m elated about it. We now need a real coach who knows how to develop kids, has patience with them, and refuses to let them develop pine splinters on their tail ends. AV has a habit of doing just that. If a youngster makes a mistake, he never goes over to them, pats them on their shoulders and gives them a word of encouragement. No he gives them the “Godfather” look, sits the kids, and breaks their spirit like when breaking in a horse, chews his gum like a cow, and repeats the same mistakes over, and over again.

    We need an entire new coaching staff, all but Ben. They should work with the kids individually, encourage them to do their best, and not be afraid to make mistakes. Now if the kid can’t, or won’t listen, well then he sits to think it thru. Please, when constructing this new staff, give some serious consideration to what I’m saying, get teachers, not autocrats who never played above the CHL level, and coaches like he walked on water. I bet AV deep down in his peanut brain is jealous of these talented kids, because he never could play the game, at the level that some do, NHL that is………..LGR

    • Leatherneck says:

      two teachers Walt….Stevens/Neidermeyer….defense
      few names out there for the O….Dave Tippett….Bob Hartley, Darryl Sutter

      Mr Q for head coach if available

      But the head coach has to be more than the teacher….he has to be the father figure….meaning he will discipline if need be

      • tanto says:

        No, no … no, no and no …. no. Just kidding, kind of … I wouldn’t mind Tippett, at least he has a track record of working with the youngins’

        • Czech! says:

          Hell no on Tippett! A terrible coach who’s players do nothing but regress after starting out strong. Look at Max Domi

        • Mintgecko says:

          Yotes fans wouldn’t agree to that, they always say he likes vets over youth.

          I don’t know where you get your info from but by thinking on the spot I would say that AV has a better history of youth.

          • Leatherneck says:

            Well…my first impression is/was he coached youth so his experience in this matter…..if this is wrong….Ok don’t hire him….I also was clear to hire Tippett as an A

            My coach of choice is Mr Q
            Neidermeyer and Sutter as A’s

      • Chris A says:

        Only interested in Coach Q.

        Stevens is a headhunting piece of human garbage and I don’t want him anywhere near the Rangers. He destroyed the careers of both Lindros and Kariya, he should be shunned by the hockey world and for some reason they put him in the HOF.

        Tippett, Hartley, Sutter, they all coach a boring style of hockey that is no longer viable in the NHL. Neidermayer, not sure where he’s working now, but if he’s not coaching, I don’t want him.

        • Mintgecko says:

          I think it would do someone like Hayes some good to get Q. Clearly the Hawks saw the big picture to draft a NCAA prospect in the first round with Q behind the bench.

          The Kariya hit was uncalled-for on so many levels. He was fair game to get hit but he didn’t have to follow through as mean as he did.

          I actually wouldn’t mind Sutter due to all the 23-25 year olds we have. I think if you have a solid base to the team than he could be good to have . I just get the feeling that whoever the next coach will be is going to hate Kreider in the long run. He has got to still be a frustrating person to coach imo.

      • gene4240 says:

        Stay away from Bob Hartley, my friend was on the coaching staff in Colorado when Hartley took over for Coach Crawford, players hated Hartley and Roy actually took a swing at Hartley in his office for being pull from a game when COL was winning a game, when Roy was trying to break the all time wins for a GT.

      • Flatbush says:

        Leatherneck, I would love to see Stevens as the D coach. You get teaching experience and fire. Imagine hiring Mess to work with forwards as a special assistant. Don’t advocate Mess to be a bench coach because of lack of experience and maybe too strong of a personality. Think both of these guys can help.

  3. EZ Rider says:

    Yes, youth is very helpful, even more so these days. Got to have talent, brains, and guts, too.

  4. DAVID k says:

    They need to develop players in Hartford that can step in one day. We had injuries as every team does and there was nothing in Hartford that showed they were ready to play. The farm was and has been bare, The bottom line is they need to draft well and yes have a coach that will allow players to make mistakes and learn on the fly. Growing pains.

  5. Joe Melillo says:

    The Rangers will look very different next year ! , and could begin to look very different the last 9-10 games this year , when they can call up Chytil and Anderson without them losing a year of eligibility .
    Though AV is an all time great coach ( from a winning perspective) , I do not expect that he nor his staff will coach this team next year !
    A younger player developmental coach will be in place . Wish them lots of luck!!

  6. Ben Bousa says:

    They should bring up Chytil and Andersson for the last few games unless that screws up their AHL eligibility for playoffs (don’t know the rules).

    Next season I’d love to start with:
    1. Kreider, Zibby, Zucc
    2. Buch, Name, Andersson
    3. Chytil, Hayes, Spooner
    4. Vesey, Nieves, Fast

    A. Shatty, Skjei
    B. Staal, Pionk
    C. Gilmour, DeAngelo

    Obviously, FA’s will play a factor. Maybe trade the rights of Spoon or Name and make a run at JT, or a D-man. Would love to move up in the draft to take Dahlin as well, but that will cost a lot.

    • Ranger17 says:

      Why would you put Spooner and Name out there . Staal can not be in the starting line up next 7th D or B/O . He can’t be sent to the AHL not allowed

    • Kevin says:

      Chytil and Andersson cannot play more than 9 NHL games or their contracts can no longer slide. If they play 10 or more thy burn a year off their ELC’s and will then need to be protected in two years for the Seattle expansion draft.

    • rglv says:

      Why would you put Anderson and Chytil on the wing when they are both centers? Why would you take Spooner over Namestnikov? Both about the same statue, and RFAs, but the latter is more talented. Why would you have Staal in the lineup?

    • Swarty says:

      So you’ve already shipped Vlad out???

      Tough crowd.

      Bad move

      • Fotiu is God says:

        My cellie throwing down on the yard.

        You said it, Swarty.

        Don’t know if you caught last night’s tilt, but it was as if North Korea launched an ICBM full of psilocybin on Vancouver. Sure, it was pond hockey; if not a stone gas to watch. Forasmuch, I can’t remember seeing so many smiles from a Ranger team.

        To the specifics: At first blush I thought Namestnikov was Ulf Nilsson. Holy smoke he’s talented. How do you say “smooth MoFo” in Russian, Swarty? Arguably, Vlad might be the most elegant Ranger centerman since Jean Ratelle.

        Ryan Spooner? Wow; more serious skill.

        Suddenly this club has dynamism. Energy. Elan vital.

        Jeff Gorton’s got this dialed. Clearly. Ineffably. Impressively.

        I think we can exhale. LGR!

        • Swarty says:

          Amen Brother – I caught the game – good to see some smiles. Pond hockey is a good way to describe it.

          Vlad has mucho talent and the “potential” to really breakout – let’s take the ride and see where it goes. I am certain it will start trickling over to Buch and then it will build with Ilya and Euro youngsters

          The translation is мать ублюдка – nyet

    • James1090 says:

      First thing the Rangers need to do is trade Zuccarello at the draft. Extend Namesnikov and Spooner, they should be part of the rebuild. Nieves will not be on this team next season. To many better centers ahead of him and Andersson should start as the 4th line center. Staal needs to get bought out. Maybe a sign a free agent winger like Kovy or JVR.

    • Stv says:

      Both chytil and andersson are centermen which is why they were drafted. Not going to go the miller route with these 2 players, they will be at C.

  7. Jim K says:

    I know they need to say/do the right thing this year as well as far as development vs winning, but I would argue that some of these conversations/decisions need to start now.

    No reason that 4th line of Cody McLeod and David Desharnais and Paul Carey to sniff the ice the last few games of the season so we can see Chytil and Andersson at a minimum, making sure they don’t burn the 1st year of their ELC.

    • Mintgecko says:

      I cringe at the idea of watching Chytil or Andersson on the same line as Vesey. He needs players to hold his hand and to be alart with his overrated two-way game. Carey can do the same stuff with the puck on his stick in the OZ and can actually get it out of danger in the DZ and win puck battles.

      Vesey is the most overrated player that I’ve ever seen in the last year. He wouldn’t have a official roster spot on half of the contenders right now.

  8. Leatherneck says:

    They will need a roster for next year, but what is encouraging is Spooner is trending up, Namestnikov we need to see more of and Zuc are assets that will fetch you more 1st round picks

    We get Dahlin by winning the lottery you can add Skjei

    Lundqvist’s reaction after the 4th goal is telling me he is fed up….and could swing his vote to waive his NTC

    The coaching staff…..I don’t know who the head coach should be…..but I would love to see Scott Stevens as a Assistant coach

    Darryl Sutter would be outstanding as a mentor if not an assistant coach for the organization.

    So yeah a purge of the coaching staff I am all in on

    As a rebuilding team….fans must have a low expectation for the team….and the club must embrace the idea that we might be a top pick lottery team finishing no lower than 3rd.

    Richter mentioned yesterday that the team is going to re tool…..this is a huge mistake if so. We must not have another big contract and term on it even if said player is John Tavares. Trust me I would love him here but the Rangers have too many holes to try and pretend they can become contenders over night.

    This is a very deep draft that up to 10 picks into the 2nd round would be considered 1st round picks. Some players trending up into the 1st like Serron Noel and Dominik Bokk and players like KeAndre Miller and Jack McBain falling into the 2nd rd. Mattias Samuelsson, Son of Kjell Samuelsson is a player that can fall into the 2nd round and Ty Dellandrea could easily slip into late 1st round rather being a very early 2nd round pick.

    So as you can see this draft has all the makings of being compared to the 03 draft. You will not get one elite player but very well could end up with 2 and up to 3 high end prospects and 3 more very very good depth prospects. This is a draft that you can draft for need and still have a heck of a player unlike other drafts where the best available is not what you need but what you need is substantially a lower prospect so you draft best available. This draft is NOT that

    I have been down that road of trying to buy the Stanley Cup….it’s a failing formula. Been there done that….No Thanks
    True Ranger fans will understand this and will fill the seats no matter what.

    Now imagine had we had a few top picks to combine with Lundqvist and who knows maybe we win 2 Cups….It didn’t happen so if we don’t learn from this….shame on us.

    There very well could be another Lundqvist in our pipeline in Igor Shestyorkin and to boot a Cam Talbot in Alexander Georgiev.

    Now if you can develop your McDonagh…your 1 C….elite wingers….character guys and 2 elite skaters on the back end and a couple of intimidating D men at the same time then we will win the Cup

    Problem with the Lundqvist era was we were always 1 off…we had this but not that…we got that then were missing this. So lets build the team….eh

    • King Sieveqvist ! King Sieveqvist ! says:

      And DMC probably still disliked that comment … Lmao , right on Leather !

    • Reenavipul says:

      The 4th line might need some bodies for next season, but it could be filled internally.

      • Mintgecko says:

        This is where questions about Vesey should be answered. Realistically I think that Fast will be on the 4th line in the long term of things by next season. Let’s say he isn’t but than where would Vesey fit? I rather have a Dorsett type in the bottom 6 than someone like Vesey, that’s all I know. I think Andersson either plays center or wing on there with his fellow countryman

      • Reenavipul says:

        Assuming the Rangers re-sign Nash and plug him in as a bottom 6 winger, your 2018-19 forward lines would look something like this.


        Spares would be a winger and another C to let Andersson marinate a bit more in Hartford.

        Internally you’ve got the likes of Fogarty & Nieves for a minimal offense 4th line, Lettieri in a mildly more productive 4th. Gropp still not ready

        Outside candidates are few and far between. If you’re looking for a gap filler on a contract that you can bury with a minimal/no cap hit, the types of players you’d get would be along the lines of:

        Michael Grabner
        Riley Nash
        Scottie Upshall
        Chris Stewart
        Dom Moore
        Ryan Reaves
        and so on.

        One of these is not like the others. Grabner might have to be a bit of an overpay, but until he loses two steps, it’s probably worth it.

        If you’re looking for someone who you can get on a 2 year deal and have him fill a spot in top 6 there’s Vanek and Fippula.

        With Kovy(if his sizable ego can handle it) you can go 1 year, $750k salary with a performance structure that would pay him the keep he earns. Depending on how the budget looks, you could even give him a roster bonus if he makes the club.

        Big money ain’t gonna help this season, but getting Hayes & Namestnikov & Spooner on to front loaded 5 year deals does a lot to maximize their value as assets at the time they no longer fill a role for the Rangers. Contracts like that will allow the team to shift the window out.

    • Mintgecko says:

      He’s been reacting like that ever since Skjei joined the team lol. You have a bad narrative to put down as if Hank wants to leave NY. Stick to the facts like by quoting him in the last 5 months on how he wants to stay a NYR for life and has even caught the attention of the GM to quote him during his press conference about how he’s aware and on board of his franchise player’s request.

      If you want a good story about him than lets look at how we all praise Skjei and dump on names like Staal. Then whenever I see Staal making the most obvious mistakes shift after shift there’s zero body language to Hank. If it’s Smith or Skjei turning the pucks over or missing assignments than you would see Hank practically face to face with the culprit and with his arms out like “wtf”.

      We all get down on AV having his favorites but Hank has them as well. He reacts badly to other people doing desperate snow angles but net to a guy like Staal.

    • Walt says:

      Spot on with the analysis Leather!!

    • Hockey Sittoo says:

      Leather, I just heard Patrick O’Sullivan’s take on the Rangers last night. “What was that? Don’t tell me Lundqvist is going to be ok for the next 2 years standing on his head, facing a million shots, and getting spanked every night. He dies with every goal that goes in his net. Unless he can seriously recalibrate his expectations there is no way he stays through this rebuild. He’s too competitive and cares too much.” He (and you) might be right…

  9. Andy says:

    AMEN Leather…and no more NMC’s or NTC’s. I’m fine with bringing in a veteran or 2 for mentoring on short term deals or incentive laden deals, but not signing aging veterans to long term deal we will end up buying out later. I hope management reminds them self of the cap penalties we are paying for guys who are long gone. I have to admit, selling on McDonagh ahead of signing him to a long term deal was the right decision. We will end up buying out Mark Staal eventually. You need him off the books before the next expansion draft in 2020. But they need to follow this road map you mentioned and stick to the plan. We also need to step out a bit and take some chances at the draft. We can’t go safe. Safe was the returns we got for the players we sold off. The draft is the place we are going to get young superstars.

    Namestnikov looked pretty good last night and Spooner has been pretty good too. I guess they call him Spooner because he spoons out nice passes. Are they the future? Most likely not the long term future, but they could be around for the next couple of years.

    • Leatherneck says:

      I think they are gappers….a couple of years and assets but not part of the rebuild

      I see Zuc and Skjei being gone draft day

      I see Namestmikov gone trade deadline day
      I see Spooner being around a couple of years but could also move trade deadline day. I actually like Spooner a lot….when we played the B’s his name was prominent during the game
      Same with Namestnikov….heard his name often

      • jrrangersdad says:

        “I see Zuc and Skjei being gone draft day. I see Namestmikov gone trade deadline day”

        Leather, we’re not competing for the 2019 World Junior Nationals next season. This is the NHL and its called the Stanley Cup. At best Zucc is traded but you are not going to see guys under 26yrs old traded away at this stage. We can’t have the whole 2018 Draft Class as our roster next season.

        • Leatherneck says:

          We ain’t winning the Cup for a few years….We don’t have the talent and the depth

          So you build to win it

          No you sign UFA’s to be gappers and bring in your talent in slowly to get the experience

          Let these players learn without the stress and develop chemistry

          As much as you need a Dahlin….you also need a Lindgren
          You have to have character guys and elite players to win

          For every Lidstrom there was a Maltby
          For every Neidermeyer there was a Lemieux
          For every Crosby there was a Kunitz
          For every Kane there was a Bollig
          For every Doughty there was Brown

          You need both to win… fact the speed daemon Penguins were lucky that their elites are no slouches either….Malkin plays heavy, Crosby plays heavy and add in Hornqvist to Kunitz. Cole and a couple of others were gritty

          • Leatherneck says:


            Rome was not built in a day

            A Million dollar house built on sand is worth 0 a shed built on concrete can become a mansion worth 10 Million

            • jrrangersdad says:

              Well looks like the Vegas Knights were?!!?!?

              • Leatherneck says:

                Do you really think they are going to win the Cup….by the way I live in Las Vegas

                Knights aren’t winning the Cup

                Tampa vs Nashville…….book it
                Could go either way…..Go Tampa

          • tanto says:

            Crosby plays “cheap”, not heavy.

            • Peter says:

              Perhaps, but, if he were wearing a blue shirt most would be saying he plays heavy. Just the way things work when they are on your team and they net 30 goals and 80 points a year almost like clockwork.

      • Andy says:

        I think Zucc will be gone. I think Sjeki will still be here. On Namestnikov I think that depends on Cythil and Andersson’s development really. And also his contract demands. I see them offering him a bridge deal, nothing long term. I actually think they don’t know about him, or Spooner. So they sign a bridge deal to have them in the fold, but leave their options open to see how they fit in and how the newer young kids fit in. It’s nothing that is being decided today.

        • rglv says:

          Don’t forget both Spooner and Namestnikov have arbitration rights, so either of them could be gone if the demands are high

      • Mintgecko says:

        Using Skjei if it had to be done to get the top 2 pick is necessary imo.

        I agree with you Leather

    • tanto says:

      You have to have some vets on the team, both those guys (Nam and Spoon) will be toward the back end of their prime —- but they will still be in their prime 3-4 years down the line.

      • Chris A says:

        No, Namestnikov and Spooner are already at the end of their primes. Once a hockey player hits 27, unless he’s a superstar, he tends to see declining production, or at the minimum a plateau.

        Look at one of the link Rob placed in the original post. It explains this concept in detail.

        • jrrangersdad says:

          You need to place “Rangers” in your sentence…

          “Once Rangers hockey player hits 27, unless he’s a superstar, he tends to see declining production, or at the minimum a plateau.”

          Hogwash across the NHL! The problem is Rangers haven’t developed youth so we get guys like McDonough who’s contract expire at a sensitive age. If we had let them play 2 years earlier, the good ones that is, then McDonough would have a nice contract through age 33/34 when you need to say goodbye. Just very poor execution by GMs and Coaches.

          Your comment about Name and Spooner is ridiculous.

          • Leatherneck says:

            Rangerdad……you have a point…..but the problem during Lundqvist’s window was this team was always 1 off…they had this but not that….they got that but then were missing this

            They have to build it….as we may be very fortunate to have another elite goalie….so learn from that era….get your 1 C….elite winger….2 elite puck movers and 2 intimidating D men….we even may have our Cam Talbot in Georgiev…..avoid the 1 off that haunted us

          • Reenavipul says:

            The data from the last 10 years supports his thesis.Production plateaus around 25, declines around 28.

            • jrrangersdad says:

              Bullocks! And the avg life of an NFL player is 2 years as well. The top NHL players don’t top out at 25 years old. Sh*te, most NHLers don’t get into the league until there are 23/24 now and sit on the 3rd and 4th line for at least 2 years. Would love to see these comic book stats.

              • Reenavipul says:

                Search term: hockey graphs a new look at aging curves

                Read em and weep, boyo.

        • tanto says:

          Every player is different. Some peak at 22-23, others 26-27 and still others 29-30. Admittedly once almost anyone turns 30 or so the decline begins — with a few exceptions, Grabner being one of them (in my mind at least), he’s a beast.

          • Reenavipul says:

            Every person is different, but in aggregate, the stats are the stats.

            If you think the stats are wrong, then discount accordingly. You’ll be wrong more often than right, but it will be glorious when you get it right at some point.

  10. Reenavipul says:

    The CBA (via waiver rules)basically demands you draft people with the ability to take instruction so as to get them playing as soon as possible. Unless you got someone like Fogarty, players by 23 you’re already deciding to fish or cut bait on.

  11. Leatherneck says:

    My studying of this draft

    possibly we get neither

    Also elite and my favorite not named Dahlin or Zadina

    Hit or miss guys incredible talents but need to be the right fit

    McDonagh type

    home run or bust Middle picks that could huge impact players or be Patrick Stefan

    Bust….I would stay away from these kids
    Akil Thomas

    Outstanding depth these guys will climb or fall a few spots but get drafted middle picks
    Serron Noel
    Jarred McIssac
    Bode Wilde
    Isac Lundestrom

    Home run picks in late 1st round early 2nd
    Ty Dellandrea
    Mattias Samuelsson
    Dominic Bokk
    Martin Kaut
    Jack McBain

    other names like Quinn Hughes, Grigori Denisenko, Rasmus Kupari, Ty Smith, Kevin Bahl will go as slotted.

    As an example I love Tkachuk….but as deep as this draft is
    Scenario 1 we get Dahlin…I trade up to get Wahlstrom

    Scenario 2 we select 4th I draft Wahlstrom and trade to a position to get Bouchard or Dobson….but say both are gone still trade and get Tkachuk

    22 to 26 pick Kaut but he’ll be gone so Kupari

    31 (Lets go Tampa) Ty Dellandrea

    1st of 2nd Mattias Samuelsson or Domink Bokk if they falls which is possible 1 or the other is going to be available

    2nd pick If need be trade up to get Kevin Bahl or Jack McBain

    We instantly become healthy with excellent depth and elite talent

    I am all in on a trade to get a 4th 1st rounder in the 8-14 range
    but Target Bouchard or Dobson 1st and consolation Tkachuk if he falls should both D men get selected

    our picks my wish list
    #1 #2
    Dahlin Wahlstrom
    Whalstrom Bouchard/Dobson
    Kaut Kupari
    Dellandrea Dellandrea
    Samuelsson McBain
    McBain Bahl

    • Reenavipul says:

      Zadina; 1a, -2 while McIsaac was 1a, -4 in a 8-2 pasting by Victoriaville.

      • Leatherneck says:

        Yeah McIsaac will get drafted in middle of the 1st round….forgot to put him in the group with Quinn Hughes etc

        He is a solid pick too….and I won’t be disappointed if we don’t get them

        Zadina is perfect for Buffalo and a winger for Jack Eichel
        he also could be a really good fit for us with Chytil

        I just don’t think we get into the top 3 and actually fall a spot or two. I honestly think the lottery picks have been established by the NHL with Montreal getting the 1st pick….yeah the fix is in….lol

    • Reenavipul says:

      The hill I’m gonna die on in this draft is that Adam Boqvist is beyond overrated. He had a good Hlinka and got some puck luck, that’s it.

      He can’t compete against men(and they’ve given him chances), couldn’t cut it an age group up, can’t play the position (as opposed to Hughes) isn’t producing at an elite rate(as opposed to Merkley in a superior league) and when he does score he just keeps the biscuit for himself. Now in J20 Top 10, he’s got 3pts in 2 games and a -3 in doing it Andersson was getting 2nd line minutes on a league champion, Boqvist gets a handful of shifts against men.l on an okay team.

      He makes quick, crisp, accurate passes that spend zero time on his stick. Beyond that he’s a homeless man’s PK Subban without the muscle mass and the prospect to put it on.

      So what do you have then? A PP specialist? Will he play 10 minutes a night 5v5 ever? Guys like that you take fliers on, sign as college free agents. You don’t drop a 1st round pick on them, let alone a high one. I’d put Adam Ginning ahead of him, that’s for sure. Can take a regular shift with men, trusted to play with a lead the last 5 minutes of a game. I’ll rate that ahead of a smurf who can’t actually get on the ice against men’s teams.

      But that’s just me.

  12. Njb45 says:

    Personally I’d move in from Hayes and Zuc. I’d rather play Chytl ,lias and Howden. Other teams play guys that are young and time rangers start to.

  13. Rich S says:

    I thought we were rebuilding, retooling….and tanking!!!!!!!!
    Cant we do anything right!!!!!!!!
    Kreider….should still be rehabbing, another 10 games, shut him down for the rest of the season…..Buch and hayes look like they could use a rest to help heal previous injuries……..Staal needs to play more minutes………Hank gave up 5 so he is doing his part!!!!!
    Really, now we are going to start scoring……and winning games…..
    Most of us were right on DeAngelo, he is a player with some grit and should have been playing from day 1…..and Gilmore also- he looked like the best defenseman in training camp!!!!!!!
    Thats why the trades and draft worries me….this management team has NO clue when it comes to player evaluation….see strallman, eric staal, grabner, dan boyle, desharnais, cam fowler….etc etc

    • tanto says:

      You could also say Hank saved 5, we would have lost that game if not for Hank.

    • Swarty says:

      Can’t we do anything right? LOVE IT!!

      Fuel the tank – Embrace the tank – Be the tank

  14. joe from newburgh says:

    There are unquestionably more moves that are going to be made before the draft, including roster players, prospects, and draft picks. Personally, from what I’ve seen in a very small sampling, I like both Spooner and Namestikov, but, we have a glut of centers. Either some of them move to wing, or get moved to other teams. Between the possible draft picks we have, and any more trades, this team is going to look even more different next October than it does now, but, based on what JG did so far, I’m cautiously optimistic.

  15. Ray says:

    I apologize in advance for this comment and hopefully I will never respond to you again Rob. This post contains not one shred of intelligence. The goal is to win the Stanley Cup, that is the goal. You can do it with young players, you can do it with old players. The notion that the rebuild has to be complete is absurd. You need good players and the easiest way to get good players is to look around and say, hey, Ryan McDonagh and Mats Zuccarello are good players and we already have them.

    And young players need to be developed. They need to learn good habits. For the most part, this is achieved by having them play at the proper level. As a fan, you want to see the future unfold before your eyes. Players like Desharnais and McLeod are irrelevant, so you don’t want to watch them. It is more fun to watch Vinny Lettieri, even though he isn’t any better, because he is part of the future. As a GM though, you want to maximize the likelihood that Lettieri will be a quality player. As an AHL player, he is facing the best goalies he has ever faced and maybe it is useful if he can figure out how to beat them before he tackles Price and Fleury — ditto with the defensemen he faces.

    Here’s the thing with the 2017-2018 Rangers. The problem was not that AV played David Desharnais. The problem was that the personnel was so weak that he did not have a clear superior option. And anyone who didn’t see that Tanner Glass outperformed Buchnevich in the 2017 playoffs simply wasn’t watching. Buch has way more talent than Glass could even dream of and has shown great flashes when healthy. But it remains to be seen if he is too frail to be a top line NHLer.

    People at BSB seem to group the Rangers into heroes and chumps. Heroes are above criticism and chumps only get contempt.

    • Reenavipul says:

      Lettieri is 23, at the end of his development curve age wise: after they let him get his feet wet in the A(with so so production, mind you) they brought him up and he did what you would expect from a guy who put up fringe numbers down a level. He wasn’t overwhemled, but he’s not going to light it up.

      You need a certain amount of veteran presence just to show players the level of day in, day out commitment needed to be a successful pro.

      What’s needed from management is to go into a season with a game plane for each player, sell the player on it so when both the call up and send down happen they won’t be unexpected and part of the process and sell the coach on the concept that his job is not at stake if he doesn’t win with the roster presented, but he will get fired if he *doesn’t optimize the roster at hand via development and deployment.*

      • Ray says:

        I believe we are on the same page actually. It’s not about playing the kids; it’s not about just playing veterans. It is about handling each player individually and correctly.

        Re Lettieri, I think your pessimism is justified, but the prospect development story contains some delightful surprises now and then and organizations just do their best developing players and some players go further than we expect them to.

        Maybe I misremember, but I think Dan Girardi and Cam Talbot were just guys the Rangers took a flyer on, not visualizing either as a real NHLer. But with space on the 50 man roster and minor league needs, you sign some long shots. My gut feeling is that Lettieri is already better than the Rangers thought he’d be when they signed him. [I won’t hold my breath.]

        • Reenavipul says:

          Goalies & Defencemen are both the same in that they’re developmental curves go out (a little) farther and box car stats and not the drivers like they are in forwards.

  16. Larry says:

    AV should be FIRED yesterday, if not, he’s really going to messed up NYR’s draft position in the coming draft.

  17. Playground 9 says:

    Since we are holding auditions. Get Ty Ronning a Blueshirt

    • Leatherneck says:

      I think a line of Ronning, Gettinger being centered by Howden is our third line of the future

      I really hope the management teams them up in Traverse City and a game or two in preseason to get a glimpse of this

      in their time coming it has the potential to be a top 5 3rd line in the league

      • James1090 says:

        I think we need to slow down in regards to Ronning. He’s 20 years old in a league of 18 year olds. He should be dominating.

        • Reenavipul says:

          He’s also a dwarf, so that moderates that idea. He’s playing a puck hog style this season because for his career, he has to. He’s never even had a sniff of the playoffs in junior and is playing for a contract.

          Undersized and oversized junior players have to have obscene numbers for the next level. He did ok with his cup of coffee

      • jrrangersdad says:

        Yeah, we’ll take the 2019 World Junior Nationals!!!!

  18. Peter says:

    A complication for management regarding the kids that are still down on the farm, like Andersson and Chytil and others recently acquired, the upcoming Beckman expansion needs to be a consideration. I am not that familiar with all of the rules, but they would likely want to avoid bringing some of the kids to the roster and being forced to protect them, thereby making it harder to protect everyone they’d like to keep.

    Believe me, I am anxious to see their young people perform, but only if they are ready both in terms of their hockey skills and in light of their contracts and the expansion.

  19. Reenavipul says:

    Kevin Klein has now retired from Zurich.

    • Swarty says:

      In the old days that announcement would trigger a Sather road trip to get Klein’s signature on a contract.

      Nope – not any more – wouldn’t be prudent.

  20. Leatherneck says:

    Expansion draft candidates will be Vesey, Fast, Gilmour, Pionk or DeAngelo, Halverson

  21. agentsmith says:

    zuccarello and his “leadership” will be taking time from a rookie/young player. they’ve gotta find a way to dispose of him this summer.

  22. pas44 says:

    …and why do we think Coach Q will be available?

    The Blackhawk ownership loves him and they are incredible loyal to their team family.

    I can’t see him getting his walking papers just yet.

    • Mancunian Candidate says:

      Hawks’ GM Bowman and Q aren’t as close as they used to be—Bowman fired Q’s assistant coach & bud Mike Kitchen after last season, and Quenneville was publicly angry about it. This is 2 years in a row of decline for Chicago, and they can’t move any of their insane longterm contracts to Toews, Seabrook, Keith, and PKane. The proverbial “new voice in the room” is being talked about out there a bit. Not posting any links because that seems to delay posts, but Chicago Tribune has a few good articles on the situation in the Hawks front office.

      • Leatherneck says:

        Good point about the Blackhawks and also a mistake the Rangers must avoid
        I don’t know what the % is tied up into these 4 players but say it’s 40%
        You can’t build around this….not a good formula and not a wonder that the Blackhawks are declining and some day soon in the future when their production drops even more….the Blackhawks then will realize this mistake and regret these signings.

        • Walt says:


          The Hawks have too much tied up with the players mentioned, and the Pens are basically in the same boat;

          Malkin $9.5 mil
          Crosby $8.7 mil
          Kessel $6.8 mil
          Latang $7.25 mil
          Schultz $5.5 mil

          This is the main reason they were forced to put Marc-Andre on the expansion list, and are currently in a cap bind.

          I prefer to get younger, cheaper, and be in a position to give a little more to everyone, rather than develop a Caste system which can create discontent within the locker room!!!!!!

          • Rich S says:

            Younger and cheaper sounds good, but ”’better”’ is where I want this team to go……
            As I mull over the trades again, I see that we have traded ”Quality” for “Quantity”….
            We gave up 3 of our top 4 forwards and our top defenseman and all we got back was 2 ”Late round 1 ”’ picks and nanestinov and prospects/maybe’s….
            Had we got back a couple of top ten-fifteen picks,,,,OK ,,,,,,but we didnt……anything past top 10-15 is hit or miss…..
            And with this management team, do you really think that after 20 years of ineptitude suddenly, sather has got it????

            • Walt says:


              First of all it’s obvious you get young QUALITY, thats a given my man.

              I’m not going to argue with you, but we gave away expiring contracts, and got back quality players, quality prospects, and a shit load of draft picks. If I recall we have 3#1’s, 3-#2’s, and a 3, not bad for a dummy running the show.

              20 years of ineptitude suddenly, Sather has got it????

              Yes he has, because he doesn’t run the day to day operation, and may have had an epiphany, and came to the realization that retreads are just that, someone elses cast aside, that is over the hill. This is now JG’s team, with the cigar chomping fool a side show, who’s on the payroll because the owner was weaned off the bottle my him, and that Dolan feels obligated to keep rewarding the clown.

              I love ya man, but if you haven’t figured this out by now, well I just wasted five minutes of time typing this note to you. Have a great evening!!!!!!!!!

  23. Leatherneck says:

    I want to mention the Oilers and Islanders who notoriously always end up with high picks and are failed franchises.

    There is a reason for this
    First the Oilers…they had to trade Eberle, Hall, Yakopuv and more than likely Neugent-Hopkins will be gone. The error here was too many Chiefs and no one to guide them. Then they didn’t add the right pieces
    They got impatient and have some awful UFA signings and atrocious trades. Obviously they still have time to correct this and still win a Cup when you have a McDavid and Draisatel…..and quite likely to add Boivqist in the draft…..Boivqist here will excel and a very good fit….they will add the character guys as I am sure they know this now.

    Islanders have many areas to look at to include their fan base
    They had to battle politics…hence relocation to Brooklyn
    Poor management, ownership and talent evaluation but they also hit home runs here too
    Money…kinda speaks for itself so they became 1 or 2 offs
    They also are not quite out of it but for them things are critical because one right or wrong move is where they are at. Especially if you bring into the equation the window with John Tavares.
    Absolute huge mistake if they let Tavares walk. Here is a team that can move the needle big with a couple of trades. They are more in the urgency area and time a critical factor. They are 1 Goalie, 1 depth defenseman 1 winger and a couple of depth forwards away to become serious contenders.

    The Rangers don’t have any of the Islanders problems if they go about the rebuild the right way. What they must avoid is what the Oilers went through…. Huge lessons for the Rangers management to learn from .

    My rebuild philosophy is not to be a lottery pick for 5 to 10 years, I think 2 to 3 years….you’ll get your elite player and the 1 C….this year’s draft brings 2 elite players and depth but I don’t see the 1 C in this years draft. At a point when we are ready and you were unable to find your 1 C via the draft, then you go for it via a trade….you will have depth strengths and assets as to not get this but lose that scenario. No more 1 offs

    Also a point with the 1 C…..very important to have but if you have 3 2 C’s this can offset not having that 1 C. You have to have 4 lines that you can ice with 1 line for sure a defensive line…(Critical faceoffs, taking a draw in your own end with the lead and the opposition goalie pulled). You can’t have 4 offensive lines and think that will win you the Cup. There are other areas of the game other than just scoring, after all you are playing an opponent who wants to win the game as well.

    • tanto says:

      You don’t need lottery picks, although 1 or 2 are nice, you need assets to work with and then need to utilize them properly — i.e., that means not trading them away for trade deadline bums. You can trade at the draft or over the summer, even at certain times of the year … but deadline deals almost never work, it’s rare when they do … very.

      There are enough really good players in every draft and you can find them in the 1st half of the draft. Those picks must be utilized judiciously. Teams win championships, not individual players … and the team must be greater than the sum of your individual players.

      • Leatherneck says:

        I agree Tanto but it’s better when you can draft them and typically they are in the 1st 3 picks and much cheaper if you drafted them

        When you get into a scenario like the Blackhawks where you have multiple players like that….you trade them and keep one that you can still build around
        I would’ve Kept Toews and traded Keith Seabrook and Kane or pick 1 of your preference and trade the other 3…mine would be Toews

        • tanto says:

          Well I can’t argue that it isn’t better to have multiple picks in the Top 3 for a few years. Does anyone think Chicago or Pitt wins even 1 post-lockout championship without tanking horribly for a prolonged period of time?!

          … and I agree, Chicago would have been better off trading one of their cap hogs and keeping their overall depth intact. If anyone is feeling down about where our team is at the moment, they can just take a look at a few other perennial contenders that are down in the dumps, like Chicago and SL. It’s a new NHL, gone are the days when a team could make the playoffs 25+ years in a row … more than likely that isn’t feasible anymore, especially with the continued dilution of quality players. Hopefully Bettman and company stop at 32.

    • Rich S says:

      You are exactly right with your rebuild points and doing it right, but isnt this rangers management team as bad as or even worse than the isles and oilers?
      Sather has been here some 20 years and look where we are….
      How can I possibly have faith that he suddenly knows what he is doing?
      I honestly believe you and I and many others here would have a better shot at building a winner than this current org……..

  24. Leatherneck says:

    If you look at the Penguins, both Crosby and Malkin are under 10 Mil….a Mil here and a couple of Mil there adds up in savings….Amazing to me how they were able to fit Brassard but it is the 1 Mil here 2 Mil there and clever trading that they did it

    Very smart and efficiently run club the Pens….plus luck too

    • Mancunian Candidate says:

      Don’t forget Vegas is picking up 40% of Brassard’s salary, don’t think the trade would’ve come off otherwise.

      • Leatherneck says:

        That’s what I meant by clever trading….they are an efficient organization

        When you have the foundation….you’ll find the way

  25. Leatherneck says:

    Another thought….if they do decide to go with more ELC on their roster, that would mean they can buy out Marc Staal

    2021/22 is when we get rid of these cap hits and buy outs

    depending on what the Cap hit is next year….we have about 15 mil to spend on

    Who in here really demands a major increase
    Hayes 2.6 to 4.5?
    Spooner 2.8 to 4.5?
    Namestnikov 1.9 to 3.5?
    Vesey .925 to 1.9?
    Skjei .925 to 2.5?
    Gilmour 7.5 to 1.4?

    and if you trade Skjei and Zuc for another 1st next year well that’s two less you need to pay

    Interesting times in Ranger land

  26. Bloomer says:

    Play the kids for sure. But you have to have some vets on the roster to teach them and led them. If not the Rangers will suffer the same fate as the Oilers and Hurricanes. They will become a team stuck in 2nd gear never able to find their way.

    • Leatherneck says:


      I agree with that,,,,,but how do you tackle the Staal situation?

      In a heartbeat if I am the Rangers and I get Dahlin….Skjei is gone

      • supermaz says:

        Dahlin is way overrated. Watching the world juniors, he was a non factor.

        • Reenavipul says:

          You, sir, are worse than a fool.

          I saw Dahlin at 15 dominate a J20 game. By the end of the season, he was doing that on the men’s side.

          He now is 1st pair for his team. He clowns men routinely with his puck skills, you can’t lay a finger on him. He’s gap control is nailed down, he’s sound positionially in his own end, will take the body, plays with a bit of a mean streak. His technique for puck separation is tight, can make the breakout pass, find the open man and jump into the play. He transitions from O to D in a heartbeat, with power.

          Rasmus Dahlin would be the best defenceman on the Rangers *right now*.

          But yeah, overrated.

          • Reenavipul says:

            And the tourney he was a non factor in, he had 6 points in 7 games as a 17 year old. Meanwhile, Libor Hajek(the guy the Rangers just traded for) had a “breakout” tourney with one more point and *two* years older.

      • Bloomer says:

        Leather..Staal is not the Rangers worst dman. Which tells you a lot about the depth of the Rangers defence. He will be around for a while. However, I do believe we have seen the last of Kampfer. Smith will likely return on a last chance agreement. Delangelo may stick…the other two smurfs I be surprised to see either one take a regular spot next year.

        The Ranger got in their recent dealings 3 talented young blueline prospects. It’s a good thing as their pipeline of young capable dmen was running dry. They still will need some time to develop, but eventually I can see them on the Ranger roster.

  27. Odielicious says:

    Everyone on here is wasting their breathe. All these posts about, what, who and when are so pointless.

    There is 18 games remaining til any of that matters. Like others have said we should stay in house with the picks and prospects. Who knows if one of them will turn into Kucherov?

    What I believe we should do is keep Zuc and Hank. Good role models and one is in the twilight of his career. But we need a guy like Jagr to foster respect and admiration within the rookies in the forward group. Who’s Jagr for this rebuild …that is anyone’s guess at this point. That would be something of interest to see others opinions on. Aside from the obvious Taveras.

    Coaching change wise it is a very difficult thing to decide on. Lots of variables with coaches. I am not a fan of reusing someone else’s trash. Like the idea of finding the new bellichek in the NHL though I kind of feel like New England got that one also. The B’s coach seems like a large reason for their success this year. Even after major injuries this team continued to roll. All the names that I have seen so far don’t really strike me. Won’t hate it if it happens but don’t see a difference maker among them. I mean look at Babcock’s assistant in Florida. He is not fairing any better then all the other coaches that have come and gone in that franchise’s history.

    One problem I do see is… a coach and a GM have to be on the same page. I think especially in a rebuild situation. I think the GM needs to find players that are suitable to the Coach’s style of play. And not his own style of play. Think that has always been the achilles heel of all the losing franchises in the NHL. (cough Rangers Cough) I mean being a small market team doesn’t help because even when a player blossoms under the roof he gets traded for more assets. But in the Rangers situation if Gorton was making these pickups with AV as his coach and AV’s style as his deciding factor, then it is stupid to fire him. I think in AV’s system the players particularly the D…have to have a high hockey IQ and vision…top that off with a ton of speed. I think that is why Grabner florished and players like staal and G…sank to the bottom cause the were good in Torts’ system when they got their contracts but sucked in AV’s.

    Vegas has essentially proven my thought outright. Are they going to win the cup …IDK…but remember this team was formed out of the players each NHL franchise was willing to give up. That says alot about how the GM’s around the league not just the Rangers value their own players. This team should be a bottom feeder just based on that assumption. Instead they drafted up a plan of attack and stuck with it. And pooof….you have a successful team. Amazing how that works so easy.

    So in that regard I am not to hopeful. With all the clamoring for AV’s head on here and other sites I am pretty sure the FO will give in to the demands and try another good ole boy which will try a completely different approach and style of hockey compared to AV’s…yet we just dumped all these players cause they didn’t fit into our present coach’s style. And for the most part we only kept the youthful players. So i don’t see this turning into a success very quickly and broad strokes will be painted til we can a entice a generational player to come here. Cause NY’ers are too fickle a bunch to sit back and let them develop one.

    • Reenavipul says:

      Holden went out because the only thing he could do *was* execute AV’s breakout pass. The team hasn’t been running AV’s offense since the white flag went up.

      • Odielicious says:

        I don’t think Holden had a very high hockey IQ…it could be see in panic mode when teams would pinch on him. That is why on any other team he is a 3rd pairing defender.

        • Reenavipul says:

          And who’s the genius who played him 1st pair because he executed the game plan?

          I’ll give you two initials. One is A, the other is V.

          This will be my last reply to you.

  28. Odielicious says:

    I guess I could summarize my whole essay but just saying it takes vision and commitment to make a winning franchise. Something no NY’er has that watches the Rangers. And the Front office will cave under pressure from the media and fans to do something stupid and we will have to regroup again in 2 years.

    Vegas has proven if you just take the players no franchise wants or is willing to lose still can make a winner if you have a solid plan of attack and a coach that will enforce it.

    I am sorry for the long winded version I am just extremely tired. But thanks to those who read it anyway.

    • Bloomer says:

      I believe the success of Vegas is largely due their coach Gerrard Gallant. He has got his team playing the same take no prisoners style of hockey, that he played during his hockey career.

      When he was let go from Florida, I so wanted to see GG behind the Rangers bench. But no…instead AV is resigned. Maybe AV will stay on as a coach next season. Gorton can keep him around to deal with the mess he created.

      • Leatherneck says:

        They have incredible chemistry…been to a couple of games….seen them on TV….seeing them live….they have a system…the passes I saw….I was like whaaat….they know where they are supposed to go to…I have never seen so many blind passes connect like the way the Knights connect

        They have an uncanny way of course correcting and making adjustments in game….I saw a game against the Ducks….Ducks came out hitting and attempting to intimidate and by the end of the period it was the Ducks getting hit and having to adjust….guess who won the game. To me that was the most impressive win I saw

        Rangers have nothing close to a system that is efficient….if your strategy is to create offense from defense….chase the puck…crowd a corner….no thanks….No wonder Girardi is so much better this year

        The thing I hate the most about the Rangers is we always have weak centers….the center has to be strong mentally and physically. On defense the slot is his and the designated D to protect and I seldom see our center there….what is he doing….chasing the puck

        Yeah AV’s got to go

        • Bloomer says:

          I am looking forward to watching how Lias Andersson and Howden develop as pivots. They have big league skill sets and both are highly competitive. However, they aren’t AV type players as they also know how to backcheck and find their end of the ice.

      • Reenavipul says:

        Vegas is my candidate for 1st team out of the playoffs.

        • Leatherneck says:

          Yeah, they are not winning the Cup….I hope Boston is out 1st rd too….better 1st round pick

        • Odielicious says:

          You know what…you have a very valid point. St. Louis is out of the playoffs right now and I can’t believe that will be the case come the end of the season.

      • Odielicious says:

        Right but see how with gallant the florida panthers couldn’t right the ship. it takes 2 to tango. And a GM plays a large part of the teams success with the coach.

  29. Larry says:

    Men, what a game…when did you last see Rick Nash put Chris Letang into the goalie net? Rick Nash becomes alive after leaving AV’s dreadful “Turning the other cheek” system, good for him.

    So many good players from the 2013-14 NYR team are playing well for other teams.

    • Walt says:

      Really, it may be because the coach, his system, and style just sucks when the marbles are on the table. How many times have we stated that AV is a very good regular season coach, but a loser in the POs. Leather sited a game where LVK’s made in game adjustments against the Ducks, and won the game. AV makes adjustments, by changing the gum he was chewing on, and crossing his arms in the opposite direction. The clown has got to go, yesterday would have been fine with me!!!!!!!!

      • Larry says:

        I couldn’t agree more.

      • James1090 says:

        I’m going to challenge you a bit on this. How many current coaches in the NHL have coached a Stanley Cup game? How many have been to 2 with 2 different teams? I know he’s lost both, but its not easy in any sport to get to the championship game.

        Look I think its time to move on from him, but to say he’s a bad coach in the playoffs is a bit of an exaggeration. He definitely is a flawed coach who makes many questionable decisions.

        • Reenavipul says:

          I won’t call him a bad coach, but I’ll call him an inflexible one trick pony of a coach.

        • Walt says:


          “He definitely is a flawed coach who makes many questionable decisions.”

          That’s the problem using your own words, he makes many questionable decisions, hence a lousy coach!!!!!!!

          • James1090 says:

            Its not wrong. You can say that about a lot of coaches in the league, even successful ones.

      • Odielicious says:

        I always like to defend AV against the “He sucks crowd” cause he has been to more stanley cup finals then 70 or 80% of the coaches in the NHL. I am too lazy to do the research but I pretty sure I am right. I jump to this opinion from the fact that there has only been 4 teams to win the cup in the last 9 years. It has either been LA, Pitt, or Chicago and once to boston over AV.

        If you look at the teams he has had in those finals they definitely were not the better team on the ice. I feel that his teams always outperformed his players talent level. But I think that is why when it falls apart… it doesn’t go away silently. It falls apart with a loud thundering boom. And the echoes can be heard around the NHL.

        Give me some time. I will try to do the research and see if I am right.

        • Odielicious says:

          CArlye : 1 cup and a winner 12 seasons
          Tocchet : 0 appearances 2 seasons
          Cassidy: 0 3 seasons
          Housley : 0 1 season
          Gulutzan : 0 3 seasons
          Peters : 0 3 seasons
          Quenneville : 3 Cups 20 seasons
          Bednar : 0 1 season
          Torts : 1 16 seasons
          Hitchcock: 2..1 appear 1 Win 21 seasons
          Blashill : 0 2 seasons
          McLellan : 0 9 seasons
          Bougher : 0 1 season
          Stevens : 0 5 seasons
          Boudreau : 0 11 seasons
          Julien : 2 appear 1 win 15 seasons
          Laviolette : 3 appear 1 win 15 seasons
          Hynes : 0 2 seasons
          Weight : 0 2 seasons
          AV : 2 appear 15 seasons
          Boucher : 0 4 seasons
          Hakstol : 0 2 seasons
          Sullivan : 2 cups 4 seasons
          DeBoer : 2 appear 9 seasons
          Yeo : 0 6 seasons
          Cooper : 1 Appear 5 seasons
          Babcock : 3 appear 1 cup 14 seasons
          Green : 0 1 season
          Gallant : 0 6 seasons
          Trotz : 0 18 seasons
          MAurice : 1 appear 19 seasons

          So 11 out of 31. So that is 35% of the coaches today have made it to the finals roughly. And out of those 11 only 7 have actually won a cup. So that is a little over 20% have won a cup.

          So AV is technically better then 65% off the coaches out there when it comes to reaching the stanley cup finals. So this whole playoff BS is proven to be crap. Majority of the coaches who have been to the big dance have 3 times there and only 1 win.

          3 Coaches presently in the league have 9 seasons plus under their belts and have never even made it.

          There is a total of 11 coaches with 9 seasons or more under their belts. Out of those 11 …6 of them have a cup.

          Of those 11 coaches with 9 seasons …22 appearances to the finals among them. So out of 99 seasons …22 of those seasons at the very least ended in making the finals. Again that is statistically the average of around 20%.

          244 years worth of coaching experience in total. That means the average shelf life of a NHL coach is 7.87 years out of this current group of coaches. And in this group you have a coach who has been behind the bench for 18 seasons and has never even made the finals once. And you have another one who has been a coach for 4 years and been there 2 times and won it 2 times. Torts has been a coach for 16 years and been there once and won it in his 1 shot.

          Av has been here 4 years not including this present year. In his first year here he got to the finals and since then it has been a slow downhill dismantle of that team. I would personally allow him to finish his 2 seasons left on his contract and see if the law of averages wins out. Cause by the 7th year he should be fired anyway and if we don’t make the finals in 2020/2021 season the rebuild was a failure. And we need to start over anyway. That is according to statistics. Which everyone on here loves to shout about.

          But I know none of the AV haters will actually read this cause this doesn’t fit there agenda and I will just have to repost a shorter more condensed version to reiterate my point about how hating a coach who has a 2 president trophies and 2 stanley cup appearances is just idiotic at best. Considering there are guys coaching in the NHL who have never even made to the Finals let alone 2 times for 2 different teams.

          • Reenavipul says:

            The AV haters(along with everybody else) won’t read it because you have no idea how to synthesize abstract numbers into concise constructs.

            Any jagoff can throw together a list of stats and turn it into whatever(which is what you’re trying to get at I hope) but what one needs to do is look at what the 1% of the 1% of coaches does and try and learn from that.

            This will now be my last response and exhortation: please, just stop. Stop posting, start asking questions first. You definitely don’t have the answers, but if you started paying attention you eventually could learn what the questions are.

            I don’t mean to hound you, but FFS you and the world would be better served if you shut your mouth and opened your ears for once.

            • Odielicious says:

              Thanks for your honest assessment of my comments. If you don’t like them …here is a tip…DON’T READ THEM! I see yours and I just pass over them now. You never add anything of substance and just concur with the popular thought on here. Sorry I have a different point of view from you. I know different is scary. You had a ton of multicultural friends growing up didn’t you? The suburbs of Long Island are really a melting pot of cultures.

              I apologize for not being as articulate as some here. I really do. But I don’t have to write for my survival and I hate reading books but am try to learn from my mistakes and get better. And if you don’t think I listen then that is on you. I read almost every post on here worth something( you know anything with actual stats or facts behind it and not just 2 line comments) …it entertains me as I am sure it does for you.

              But I will suggest this to you …young one…try to gather patience in your life. Don’t always rush to judgement. Life is to short to just pass around hatred to those you don’t agree with. I am pretty sure you need to relax and listen yourself. You had a angry post up in 4 seconds after my proof post. Your skim reading doesn’t really give you anything but fuel for your hatred. Do yourself a favor on a side note …lay off the coke and try to just do LSD for a while by itself no alcohol or any other substances. Open your horizons in life. Everyone in your life has something to offer…it is up to you to determine what that is and use it to the best of your ability. Even the stupid guy on here that posts retarded opinions that you can’t even understand. I will leave you with a quote from Winston Churchill …” Success is just the ability to move from failure to failure without giving up.”

            • James1090 says:

              You’re not to arrogant. Seriously what makes you the person to say who can and can’t post on here.

        • Reenavipul says:

          Just a rule of thumb: you should be able to defend your thesis before you post it(especially when you drop 500-2000 words on it) otherwise you’re just talking out your hat.

          • Odielicious says:

            Have some patience and stop being a hater. The proof is up. If you add something on here worth more then 20 words I might actually care otherwise you are just a shallow twitter troll.

  30. Larry says:

    This is a very precise description about AV as the coach for the NYR:

    ” Vigneault succeeded in New York (and Vancouver) with veteran-filled teams that had defined roles, limited youth, and a room that was already aligned with the veterans who were in it. In 2014 the leaders were Brad Richards, Martin St. Louis, Rick Nash, Dan Girardi, Brian Boyle, Dom Moore, and eventually Dan Carcillo. From that summer on, though, the team started turning over to players Vigneault had favor for, and they removed key pieces of the 2014 core to fit them in. Accountability only factored in to players who hadn’t earned Vigneault’s trust; youthful players who were offense-first were buried or put in roles that didn’t suit them, all while ageing veterans held positions on the wall they could no longer defend.

    It cost the Rangers with a 2016 first round blowout in Pittsburgh, then again last year when the team had a golden road to the Eastern Conference Final. Vigneault is a man who simply adjusts back and forth from his own ideals, never blames himself, and hasn’t made a major adjustment to his thinking since he came to the team in 2014. That’s not a guy the Rangers want, need, or should have behind the bench as they go through this transition. ”

    • Walt says:


      Great post, right on the money, and your being kind to the fool. He can’t think on his feet, and chew gum at the same time. There lies the problem, his priority is the gum in his mouth!!!!!!!!!

    • Odielicious says:

      I like this writer’s point also. I believe he can only do one style and if you figure out his system… he is done. He really doesn’t adjust he just shortens his bench. The Conference finals to Tampa are a perfect example of this. But this point can be made for 85 to 95% of the coaches in the NHL.

  31. Scully says:

    If next year’s salary cap does come in at somewhere between 78-82 million, according to Cap Friendly – the Rangers will have about 25-30 mil in cap space this Summer to re-sign restricted Free agents and sign unrestricted guys.

    That’s a ton of space, and when combined with 3 1st round picks, and 7 total picks in the first three rounds… this might be a quick turnaround.