Jun
27

Scouting Anthony DeAngelo

June 27, 2017, by

anthony deangelo

Last week the Rangers made arguably the biggest splash of the offseason thus far, sending Derek Stepan and Antti Raanta to Arizona for the 7th overall pick (Lias Andersson) and defense prospect Anthony DeAngelo. As a former first round pick, DeAngelo is definitely a talented player. Taken in the first round by Tampa in 2014, DeAngelo followed up his draft year with two more years of more than a point per game in the OHL.

His first year in the AHL was no different, putting up 43 points (6-37-43) in 69 games. However Tampa sent him to Arizona that offseason for a second round pick. The former first rounder was traded for a second round pick. Clearly, there were some issues.

For DeAngelo, his scoring and skill are clear to the eye. He’s supremely talented with the puck and can use his speed to lead breakouts. His offensive talent is off the charts, and he’s someone the Rangers can really rely on in the offensive zone to generate chances. It’s an aspect of their blue line they’ve been missing. He’s a kid that could finally give the Rangers’ forwards the puck and actually transition the offense, something they desperately need.

However as mentioned before, there are clear issues with his defensive play. Tampa gave up on him after just a year, making him a healthy scratch in Syracuse before his trade to Arizona. This is a kid that was supposed to be an integral part of the Bolt’s future, gone for a second rounder. The concerns are very clear: His attention to detail in the defensive zone is seriously lacking.

So on the ice, DeAngelo is clearly a work in progress. He’s a kid that is going to look to score and not do much else. Which of course makes him a terrible fit for Alain Vigneault. Any defenseman that is even rumored to be bad in the defensive zone doesn’t get the necessary ice time, even if those rumors aren’t true (Yandle). But for a kid who, at the current moment in his career, is downright awful in his own end? AV won’t play him.

Now that’s not to say DeAngelo won’t improve. The kid is barely able to purchase a beer legally. There’s plenty of room to grow, and those offensive skills can certainly mask his defensive woes. But he needs to put in the effort and have the right attitude. And therein lies the major red flag for me.

DeAngelo has had a ton of problems. He’s been suspended twice for verbal abuse of officials, the most recent one being this past January. He’s directed slurs at his own teammates too. So for those thinking you’re getting Sean Avery, think again. But, as mentioned before, there’s room for him to grow. It’s not where you’ve been, it’s where you’re going. I firmly believe in that.

For this trade to really work out for the Rangers, DeAngelo needs to develop. His offensive game is borderline elite, but his defensive game leaves a lot to be desired. Hopefully the kid figures it out. The Rangers are banking on him doing so.

"Scouting Anthony DeAngelo", 5 out of 5 based on 20 ratings.
Categories : Players

139 comments

  1. Richter1994 says:

    That’s the key Dave, will AV have the “tolerance” to let the kid play and work out his issues on the ice.

    My feeling on that is that AV is clearly on a “watch” of some sort, with a former head coach standing right next to him, in Lindy Ruff. As a result, AV will be “forced” to modify his normally arrogant and stubborn way of coach, meaning he will be forced to be tolerant.

    The Rangers did not get this guy to be a healthy scratch.

    • Rhodork says:

      Tony,

      I’ve got a “vibe” that Staal is staying here. Very concerned.

      • Richter1994 says:

        nah don’t be my friend. remember, “my prediction.” it HAS to come true.

        They have from now until August to trade him. If not, then there is the 2nd buyout period (I think in August).

        • Reenavipul says:

          They can only do the 2nd buyout period if either Zbad or Fast go to arbitration.

          Something to keep in mind if either contract negotiation drags on.

          • Richter1994 says:

            which both have a very good chance of doing. AND, the Rangers could go to arbitration on either or both players and sign them right before the hearings. No harm, no foul.

      • Matt R says:

        Wouldn’t a 3rd pairing of a defensive minded veteran and an offensively gifted youngster be a good setup? Staal/Deangelo? Sure, Staal is a boat anchor for possession but he still has a great defensive stick and is still a valuable NHL player.

        McD/Shatty
        Skjei/Smith
        Staal/Deangelo

        7. Holden
        8. Kampfer

        • D C says:

          Great defensive stick? Did you watch the playoffs?

          • Matt R says:

            Great post, lets take a guys entire career and boil it down to a game or two when he had a bad play. I do not know specifically which play you are talking about, but as far as positioning and ability to play against some of the better players in the league defensively, I would rather have Marc Staal than a ton of other players.. Staal over Yandle any day of the week in his own zone.. hes a DEFENSEman, his first/primary job is playing in his own zone.

    • John B says:

      “The Rangers did not get this guy to be a healthy scratch.”

      Devils advocate Tony, we didn’t bring Buch over to be a healthy scratch or 4th liner either….

      • Richter1994 says:

        very true John, very true.

        BUT, the Rangers didn’t trade Stepan and Raanta for Buch either. 🙂

    • Ray says:

      So here is this player that two organizations have already written off because of his attitude issues and you want the coach to give the kid a free ride.

      I’ve rooted for the Rangers for fifty years. DeAngelo may be a deal-breaker for me. He is at present not someone who’s name belongs on the Cup.

      • Hatrick Swayze says:

        The Bolts wrote him off. Arizona let him go for some pretty significant assets. I wouldn’t say they sold low (aka wrote off).

      • Richter1994 says:

        I’m not saying the kid is good or the kid is bad, but I am saying that none of us know him and certainly cannot judge him.

        Raise your hand if anyone never, ever said something stupid or offensive.

        If you raised your hand then either you’re a liar or you’re the only one in the world.

        All this said rhetorically, not necessarily to you Raymond.

        • Ray says:

          No offense taken of course – but it isn’t just about crossing a line, it’s about which line and how your actions fit together.

          My impression is that it all fits together for DeAngelo. I also think the same factors will keep him from becoming a decent hockey player.

          Personally, incidentally, while people are entitled to their opinions, I certainly have a lower opinion of Trump supporters than those who supported Hitler in the early 30s. Those people at least were more desperate and had a less structured system. [Note: I am comparing supporters, not the two men.]

    • Fotiu is God says:

      Man, I always know when Anthony’s betrothed is making the good coffee.

      Your deconstruction here is spot on, man. (Love the Ruff hire, from all angles.)

      Hey, pour me a double espresso, eh…

      • Richter1994 says:

        hey bro, ready for Shatty?

        Looks like Gorton is drawing a line in the sand for Smith, which is good (don’t want hm for more than $4M per), but if you look at the charts, Smith’s shot suppression is very impressive.

        4 years, $3.5M per, I would love that.

        • Fotiu is God says:

          God bless Anthony/Richter.

          You sold me, paisan. You’re like some kind of evangel.

          Nonetheless, just so long as Your Lovechild, Shattenkirk doesn’t close the door on Our St. Brendan.

          I’m in.

          • Richter1994 says:

            if Shatty doesn’t sign here, a lot of people have a lot of esplaining to do, lol.

            I’m on the fence with Smith. I think 4 years at $3.5M per is about right. He’s not going to score pts so anything around $4M will be an overpay.

            It does sound like Gorton has drawn a line in the sand with Smith, basically saying he will not pay more than “X”, whatever “X” is. I suspect $4M per.

    • scrangersfan says:

      Did I miss something here, Last I heard Lindy Ruff is only considering taking an assistants job with the Rangers is the deal have been done and I missed it?

  2. Jerry says:

    Thanks Dave.

  3. SalMerc says:

    This may be where Lindy Ruff comes in. DeAngelo may be his off-season project. Make him a true defender while allowing his offensive game to flourish in the AV system.

    I still see a few benchings in his future, but his ceiling is high.

    • Mr Doe says:

      “I still see a few benchings in his future, but his ceiling is high.”

      Thumbs up. Got to take some learning pains with the expectation that he will grow from mistakes. To write off every kid that makes kid mistakes is…well short-sighted and immature in and of itself. Yes he is a pro and there should be a leash based on his past behaviors, but Ive watched many good players make hot headed mistakes when they were young and learn and grow from them.

      • Walt says:

        Doe

        Now that is some clear headed thinking, and hopefully this kid is given a shot at improving his game!!!!!!!

  4. Pas44 says:

    Nice stuff, thanks Dave.

    Wasn’t Brady Skjei more offense then defense until he came around this past season?

    I hope this youngster can find his way in NY. Perhaps the likes of this Original 6 with its history and more mature settings can help him to grow roots.

    I lived is Scottsdale, its a sin-city for any kid, lots of playground activities and sun to distract a fella… not to mention blondes. (Not to Offend Any Ladies)

    LGR!!!!

    • Dave says:

      The other way around actually. Most expected Skjei to be a good puck mover/defender, but not a big scorer.

      • Pas44 says:

        yea that right… well lets hope somethings can help this new ranger develop. Del Zotto looks to have found his stride in Philly…

        I think he was also a #1 pick

        • Fotiu is God says:

          Yea, we can pin that major blunder/mishandling on Torts, Pas.

          MDZ has developed into a solid blue liner.

          Now let’s hope we avoid The Unholy Trinity here amongst our Italo defense prospects: Sanguinetti, MDZ, DeAngelo.

          Who’s got Rosary beads? Richter?

  5. Spozo says:

    AV had no problem playing Holden….

    • Dave says:

      He thinks Holden is good. Therein lies the frustration we’ve had on this blog since 2014.

      • Walt says:

        Bingo!!!!!!!

      • Spozo says:

        Fair enough. I was just trying to point out that Holden had a 40 point season while being deficient in his own zone. Sounds a lot like what Deangelo will bring to the table as a 21 year old.

        I think I read somewhere (the post?) where they suggesting trying the kid out at forward?

        Also, does he have any physicality to his game?

        • Dave says:

          But Holden was “Roy’s best defenseman” and hockey coaches/GM don’t think for themselves. Plus Holden is “established.”

        • Reenavipul says:

          One of those things that drives me crazy about stats packages: inability to easily back out non playoff teams from datasets.

          • Dave says:

            There are a lot of people that see the stats and say “SEE!” It’s the wrong approach. The stats tell part of a story, like the eyes.

            Need to use both in conjunction with system role and deployment. It’s a 4 factor approach. Anything less and you don’t get the whole picture.

  6. Mikeyyy says:

    Concerned the brass will ask him o be more defensive minded like they did with staal asking him to be more offensive

    Didn’t work out for staal. Let the kid run the pp and play like is.

  7. Walt says:

    Dave

    Nice write up, and a few thoughts on it.

    Plenty of kids have come into the NHL with all offensive skills, and very little defense. Shayne Gostisbehere is the first to come to mind. All world talent, great shot, runs the PP, sucks on defense, but improving just the same. Would you turn your back on him? Probably not, I certainly wouldn’t. Remember Brian Leetch, great kid, all offense at first, developed into a decent defender in time, then into a HOF player.

    One can be taught to play defense, offense is a gift that really can’t be taught as well. My concern is the personal stuff, and that may in itself change with maturity.
    The kid is only 21 years of age, and has hoof in mouth disease. After a period of time he will realize that the taste of shoe leather isn’t very good, and will hold back on the BS. Bottom line, if he produces, and leans to keep his mouth shut, we may have a gem on of hands. And for that I’m happy with!!!!!!!!!!!

    • Dave says:

      If it was one of the attitude/defense problems, then I wouldn’t be as concerned. Problem is that it’s both. Bad attitudes usually mean uncoachable. I hope the kid figures it out.

      • Walt says:

        As someone above mentioned about MDZ, he seems to have turned it around. I’m with you though on hoping he figures it out!!!!!!!!!

        • Bobby B says:

          Walt, yes the D’Angelo/ Del Zotto comparison ha been mentioned, YIKES!!!!!

        • sherrane says:

          Don’t we also have someone on this board that wants Evander Kane? Given a choice between a talented defenseman and a talented forward, I’d lean toward the former since they are much more rare.

          Is it odd or telling that Tampa (and Syracuse) had DeAngelo AND Drouin? Are they that poor at evaluating potential headcases or did they create an environment where headcases can thrive?

      • Reenavipul says:

        Tippett wouldn’t have called up and played D’Angelo if he couldn’t play D and was a bad egg.

        Yes, there’s concerns, but if you have a solid locker….uh oh.

        So who does get the As this season?

      • Ray says:

        Are there any examples of players with his attitude problems being successful ever? Granted, Zherdev wasn’t totally awful, but you can do a lot more damage on defense.

    • Pas44 says:

      Both concerns are fixable, the God given harder skill of offense he has…

      Let’s hope he can develop…

  8. SalMerc says:

    I think this year more than the past, Gorton is showing this is his team. AV will coach the players that Gorton puts together. If AV falters, Gorton will have some discussions with him, but waiting 8 feet away is the hand-picked successor.

    Gorton took away AV’s #1C and #1RD. Whether these were really #1’s is debatable, but they are surely not here any more, that is not debatable. Gorton wants different guys on the ice, because quite frankly, last years team did not get the job done.

    So AV, here is the challenge (put forth by Gorton) put my new team on the ice and make them a winner. Stop relying on your go-to guys and start playing the guys I put together. Teams like Pitt and the Preds have a handful of very good players surrounded by young, hungry players who play hard all game long. Make our new guys play like that.

    Let’s see if the old dog AV is up for the challenge or is out of a job come Christmas.

    • Walt says:

      Sal

      Well thought out post, and let’s see if we can teach an old dog new tricks??? If he AV is gone by Christmas, that would be a wonderful gift for many on this site!!!!!!!!!

    • Mythdoc says:

      AV’s regular season track record is nigh impeccable. He gets mediocre teams in and good teams in near the top. That’s his strength. The style he likes to play is harder to win with in the playoffs unless you have a truly great team. The only truly great team I see that he has coached is the one in Vancouver that got to SCF game 7. The mistake we Ranger fans keep making is overestimating our players. (Look at the current debate over Step.) This team has overachieved its talent for years.

      Look it up: how many years have the pundits predicted they were going to miss the playoffs this year? They will make the prediction again, and we will make the playoffs again. Count on it.

      • SalMerc says:

        We will make the playoffs, but we didn’t have the intangibles; heart and soul. AV coaches like a robot and he likes having a team of robots. You may think there is no place for emotion and momentum in sports, but I disagree. The Ottawa team was not better, but they won because they didn’t give up. We sure did. The Preds played as hard as they could, but lost to a better team, but they played their hearts out. Other than Zucc, Nash and maybe Smith, when did a NYR leave it all on the ice during the playoffs? That my friend is a reflection of the coach.

      • Rangers Rock says:

        Which was first the chicken or the egg? It’s funny how we can see this the exact opposite.
        If stupid didn’t make stupid mistakes, we may have already won a Cup. AV lost the players and you can see that because they will not give it they’re all. The players are great just not motivated because the coach does not put the best players on the ice.
        You think the car is incapable of winning a race and I think the driver sucks. We changed the parts on the car again and you still think its the car.
        Sad!

        • Mythdoc says:

          Up until now, which significant new parts in the car did the GM Give to AV? Yes, I do think the car has been inadequate. And you have seen it every year that someone whom AV didn’t fully trust went elsewhere and failed to light up the league. That’s why the Yandle reference is so weird. If he is so great he should have shown something after leaving the Rangers. He’s exhibit A in why AV does know how to evaluate talent, lol!

          I do think there is a case to be made that AV’s cool demeanor may no longer work for this group of players. But let’s give credit where it is due. There is precious little good evidence that AV is guilty of misjudging talent, the canard that keeps circulating. He simply needs more talent on the roster.

      • Dave says:

        Picking NYR to miss the playoffs last year was silly. But I will say this: As of today, dressing the roster as is on 6/27, this is a team on the bubble.

        • Reenavipul says:

          Most other teams have not upgraded beyond Isles, Boston is tumbling backwards, Ottawa backsliding; still a 7th seed at worst.

          Needed fixes are straightforward, even if they nail those, still a 7th seed.

      • Egelstein says:

        “This team has overachieved its talent for years.” Nearly did a spit-take there.

        Despite countless errors by this coach (line construction/defensive pairings, deployment, minutes distribution, Tanner Glass, key situational usage, playing favorites to the detriment of the skill level on the ice, losing his most effective defensive pairing on the bench [and not just the one time he actually realized it and commented about it], calling out or benching certain players for mistakes that others make constantly without punishment, frequently using his timeouts at inexplicable times or not at all, etc.), this team has been able to overcome many of those things and still manage to succeed at a decent level, whereas a lesser roster would not.

        Talent is exactly the predominant reason the Rangers have been successful in AV’s tenure; there’s been enough talent that they can still survive his buffoonery. Same with those Vancouver teams. These are not mince-meat rosters we are talking about. Give AV a mediocre, and he does what he did in MTL.

        Imagine how well the Rangers might have done with a coach that didn’t make these same mistakes. Or, at least significantly less of them. While it may be true that all coaches have issues, AV seems to exhibit a sheer lack of understanding when it comes to what type of player, exactly, should be in his OWN systems. I find that fairly unforgivable. When his process doesn’t work, there’s always someone or something else to blame – it’s never that the process needs to be adjusted or that he had the wrong guys on the ice at the wrong times.

        AV just keeps trying to ram square pegs into round holes constantly, while several of the round pegs that he does have are not being utilized properly. A coach can always do more to lower the performance of his team below their talent level than to raise their performance above their talent level. Highly-talented teams can still win with sub-par coaching…but a great coach will most often be able to achieve very little to help a low-talent team win.

        Mike Sullivan ate AV’s lunch last season because AV refused to make simple strategy and deployment adjustments to stifle the incredibly complex and difficult to spot (sarcasm) neutral zone trap. Pens still would have won even if AV adjusted the process and deployment, because nobody was beating them the way that they were playing…but I’d wager it wouldn’t have been as brutal a beat-down had AV been more creative. Or observant. Or whatever the deficiency was that led him to keep trying the same approach only to have it stifled over and over.

        Regarding Ottawa, look at the players he had on the ice during the key moments where the series was lost for NY. Glass. Holden. Staal. Girardi. Not exactly the cream of the roster crop. And those moments just weren’t as a matter of circumstance/coincidence, when those players were sheltered and the damage just so happened when it was their turn to be on the ice and there was no other option…AV was intentionally putting those players out in key situations. Because he thinks they’re good, and right for his system. They are neither.

        I don’t know to which pundits you refer, but they got way too cute with their predictions if they said the Rangers would miss the playoffs last season. Barring disaster in the way of injuries, they were most certainly a very likely playoff team as constituted going into the season. They would likely have been playing the Penguins in the ECFs if not for a number fairly egregious coaching errors. An inferior Ottawa roster took this iteration of the Pens to seven games, to note. The Rangers might not have been as far away from a Cup as many seem to think.

        • Rangers Rock says:

          You took the words right out of my mouth!

          • Egelstein says:

            I kinda copy-catted you there Rock! I just wanted to elaborate more on the principle from my point of view. I think AV’s systems and process might be optimal for some rosters…but I really just don’t think it’s optiomal for ours, and his lack of adjustment to said systems and process seems wholly counterproductive to me. Way too stubborn (and “stubborn” is the bright side of the possible issues…”dumb” would be the other end of the spectrum). The whole definition of insanity bit, and all…

            Even in a crazy offseason with a major overhaul (which is not where we are so far), what, 70-80 percent of the roster will remain intact? Trying to make the roster fit the system is putting the cart before the horse. Players are who they are for the most part. Much easier to adjust the system and process to fit the collective strengths of the roster – or, change the coach – than to overhaul a roster to fit the system and process, and attempt to eradicate long-standing weaknesses that aren’t perfect for the system and process, player by player.

        • Mythdoc says:

          It’s just dumb to compare us to Pittsburgh with Crosby, Malkin, Kessel, etc, and say we are equal to their talent level. Lots more words don’t make it so. No one wants to reply to the key point that ex Rangers have not lit up the league after leaving. You’ll see that again with Step in Az.

          • Egelstein says:

            And where/when, exactly, was that said – that PIT and NYR are on equal footing on paper, talent-wise? Rosters who are better on paper lose to teams who don’t stack up on paper all the time; this is not unheard of. Thus, the phrase: “That’s why they bother to play the games.”

            Also, it’s complete folly to attempt to use what players do elsewhere after the fact to compliment, or put down, a coach. Apples to oranges – unless, of course, they are utilized the same exact way in every regard as their prior stop. That seems rare to me.

        • Fotiu is God says:

          Egelstein channels E3…

          Stick tap, man. Those are some enormous virtual shoes to fill, though.

          Inasmuch someone’s gotta step up with the 10,000-word posts.

          • Egelstein says:

            I can’t even come close to E3 in that regard. I am, after all, only one E.

            That said, E3 and I have exchanged some pretty verbose takes during our time together here – no doubt about that.

    • Mintgecko says:

      Nobody really knows if Girardi was considered a top pair or Stepan being a 1c to the coaches. I think AV had to use what was given and by that I mean by playing the money maker’s. This was where I thought he took all the blame when in reality Sather could have been the shot caller calling things which would have bled on JG and then eventually on the coaching staff. I personally think that AV helped push out Stepan out the door at least, he’s been team Hayes since the first day at camp and was huge on him the minute he became a NYR.

      • Egelstein says:

        I’d assume that most established head coaches would not tolerate such an environment where they were forced to play certain players in certain spots according to ownership/front office preferences. Not at the NHL level, anyways. AV is definitely a “good hockey man”; he’s made that list. He doesn’t need to work for the Rangers and get walked all over. No matter what I think of his coaching at times, because he’s in the good ‘ol boys club and has connections all over various organizations, I doubt he would need to look long for a job if he resigned his post with the Rangers.

        As for Hayes, he’s a solid player. Probably could handle 2C IMO, even if not ideal for where his game was last season. I wouldn’t put him at 1C though, personally. I can’t rule it out, but you’d think AV would have at least tried Hayes at 1C when Stepan slumped if he was really that itchy to get Hayes moved up. After all, he wasn’t afraid to bench a generational goalie during a rough spell!

        All speculation there, though. Just my opinions.

  9. Mythdoc says:

    Ka-Ching! Another Yandle reference! Another gratuitous AV dig! I’m looking forward to next season when we will have NOW THREE AV d cast offs, Yandle, McIlJesus, and Clendening, lighting up the league. Yup. He never learns, but we are never wrong, right? Funny how that goes!

  10. Reenavipul says:

    Anybody want to do a systems dive on Ruff to see how the roster would adapt with him driving the bus?

    • Dave says:

      I do a high level systems overview in every game thread. Here’s the most recent one on Ruff when he was in Dallas:

      Lindy Ruff has the Stars playing an overload 1-2-2 forecheck which can be deployed aggressively or conservatively depending on the game situation (e.g., time left in period, score, etc.). In the defensive zone, Dallas tends to overload when the puck is along the boards, but they’ll switch to a zone defense when the puck is at the points. The Stars also run a variation of a 1-3-1 power play and diamond/box hybrid penalty kill. These are familiar styles of play that the Rangers should be used to at this point.

      Long story short – almost identical systems to AV.

      • Egelstein says:

        Yeah…that’s why I groaned when I saw the news. Not just because Ruff is a retread if he does become the next NYR coach (would prefer someone who hasn’t failed elsewhere or failed with a similar system to AV, specifically)…but mainly because he’s basically the same coach as AV in numerous ways. Where I’m hoping they differ (in a positive way…them being at each other’s throats won’t help anything) and Ruff makes an impact is the defensive deployment. It almost literally can’t be worse, so it will either be more of the same, or better.

  11. amy says:

    now we have Lindy Ruff on board hopefully he will do a job with the defense which means they will be on the defensive zone and score some goals

  12. Bloomer says:

    Rangers fans now have a new scapegoat defenceman to blame for Lundqvists inconsistent performances.

  13. Peter says:

    The one time I saw DeAngelo play against the Rangers last season he was a force on the ice, driving the play and slicing thru Rangers defenders. If that small sample is any indication, then the Rangers have procured a player who can be a real game changer if they harness his talents.

    • Peter says:

      He is not Keith Yandle; his game is much different. This kid skates much harder and has great moves, making good skaters look slow.

  14. Rangers Rock says:

    Just found out about E3. Get better soon!

  15. Brian says:

    Enjoyed the article.

    I saw DeAngelo play the Rangers in Glendale AZ last December [in a game noteworthy for 1) a Matt Puempel hat trick, 2) four power play goals by the Blueshirts, and 3) a startling/encouraging number of Rangers fans in the stands].

    DeAngelo’s play that night didn’t make me sit up and take notice, so I am hoping that the Rangers see something that I didn’t and that he develops into a valuable asset. It’s a horrible trade if he doesn’t turn into a significant player.

  16. Chuck A. says:

    If Deangelo is a wash, is a high first round pick and the loss of a hefty contract to, albeit a serviceable top six center, worth the deal?

    • Dave says:

      I don’t hate the idea of trading Stepan. I hate the trade they backed themselves into with him. They didn’t get enough for him.

      • Reenavipul says:

        In a vacuum, if they wanted max value they would’ve dealt Stepan at the trade deadline.

        You play the hand you’re dealt. Weren’t getting much before expansion freeze, got less after. I guess they just didn’t want to parlay with Carolina.

        • ANGRY WIENER DOG STAMPEDE says:

          They also could have held back $3.25 of cap; I’m sure a half price Stepan would’ve garnered far more interest than he did at full price.

      • Peter says:

        They are really high on Lias. They think DeAngelo has a lot of talent. I hope they are right.

        • Egelstein says:

          This comment made me think a bit. Lias and DeAngelo couldn’t be more different. Lias is an ultra-safe bet, with a floor about as high as they come, according to most talent evaluators…but also, not a very high ceiling. DeAngelo on the other hand is kinda the polar opposite, with a basement level floor…but an immense ceiling.

          I’m not saying I’ve come to a conclusion thinking about these two players…but your comment did make me think a bit! Two completely different prospects that they both have positive regard for.

      • SalMerc says:

        Ever think that is all he is worth?

        • ANGRY WIENER DOG STAMPEDE says:

          The problem with that thinking is that it doesn’t matter ‘what he was worth’ to other GM’s, but rather, what he was worth to the team.

          While I’m glad he’s gone for reasons I’ve previously stated, there’s no denying that…

          A) he is highly thought of in the analytics community, as he does well in many ‘fancy stats’ which tend to correlate very well to actual on-ice performance

          B) a 55 point hole just opened on either the third or first line, depending upon how you look at it.

          Hopefully they don’t expect Anderrson to fill the 3C without problems.

          Also, re DeAngelo, IIRC, wasn’t Josi renowned for his awful defensive play as well?

    • 43 says:

      According to Brooks, this was pretty much the ONLY deal that made sense. Step’s contract and NMC scared-off a bunch of GMs.

      That said, the trade also gave Gorton cap space, the necessary flexibility to rebuild this roster.

      While I’m not too excited (right now) on the return, its too early to diagnose the consequences of this deal, good or bad.

  17. Chuck A. says:

    And…is it possible that Ruff had input in the trade for Deangelo??

    • MRichter35 says:

      at the very least, Ruff is the best coach to fine tune and develop (mentor) DeAngelo!!!

  18. Rich S says:

    If DeAngelo has a bit of Sean Avery in him than I am thrilled. Sean was EXACTLY the type of player we needed and still need. Eas Tikannen, Claude lemieux are two other similar players who come to mind. Thats what this team is lacking. Toughness, grit, and players who play with an edge……like crosby, letang……

    • Egelstein says:

      These things listed are not among the main reasons the Penguins now have two Cups in the last two years, IMO. They play a fast and high energy game…but I don’t think their physicality scares other teams any more than most. Their collective skill level, however, most likely does.

      Letang was injured during these playoffs, so obviously he wasn’t a make-or-break crucial cog in the wheel. Although “elite generational skill” comes to mind when I think of Crosby…”toughness” and “grit” I would not say are among the core skills his game is built on. I certainly don’t think he’s some wimp the way some folks do, to note – not saying that. (Fun fact – there isn’t a player in the NHL who is a wimp.) But I don’t think his toughness and grit is what strikes fear into his opponents, either.

      In fact, the Pens went out and got Reaves because, by their own estimation, they currently lack the toughness and grit to deter other teams from “abusing” Crosby and others (every team has issues with goons doing this to their best players, and the presence of an opposing goon doesn’t usually deter it…but hey, their prerogative). Among goons, Reaves isn’t your typical Tanner Glass or John Scott type – he’s more skilled than that. Not to be confused with a highly skilled player at the NHL level, mind you…but some skill. If I felt I needed a goon (I wouldn’t, but to note), Reaves is one I might actually consider.

      • Rich S says:

        egelstein,
        If you watch crosby enough you would see that he is a ‘dirty ‘ player who will do anything to win….trip, slash, hold , interfere etc etc….He doesn’t fight often but he is still a very aggressive player especially in the playoffs…..Sort of like a more skilled modern day bobby clarke…
        Letang….didnt like how much or how hard former ranger viktor stallberg was hitting him 2 years ago, so he crosschecked him in the mouth…..if I am a player [after I pummeled him] I would keep an eye on him after that,,,,thats Letang playing with an edge….
        Getting Reaves was to insure that opponents dont ‘abuse ‘ their stars but I did not see that happening in the playoffs……It now means they can be dirty without fear of retaliation…..
        Disagree…..stepan would be my definition of ‘wimp’….and I am sure there are others….

        • John B says:

          “Getting Reaves was to insure that opponents dont ‘abuse’ their stars….”

          Then they failed miserably.

          “So will any of that work? Can Reaves actually provide that sort of protection?

          There is no doubt he will be willing to respond after the fact, because even though his fight totals have decreased in recent years he is still a willing heavyweight.

          The issue is whether or not he can stop even a little bit of the abuse toward his teammates by making opponents like Washington’s Tom Wilson or Columbus’ Brandon Dubinsky (two of the biggest thorns in the Penguins’ side) take notice.

          The easiest way to answer that now is to look at what sort of abuse the Blues — Reaves’ former team — took in recent years.

          It was a lot.

          Over the past four seasons the St. Louis Blues — Reaves’ former team — were on the receiving end of eight incidents that resulted in supplemental discipline from the NHL (suspension or fine), typically reserved for the dirtiest plays. The only team that was on the receiving end of more during that stretch was the Boston Bruins (10 –and keep in mind, this was a team that had Shawn Thornton and Milan Lucic for most of those years).

          During one nine-day stretch in 2014 the Blues lost T.J. Oshie and David Backes to head shots. The two hits resulted in seven games in suspensions while Oshie and Backes both missed playoff games. Reaves was in the lineup both nights.

          The next season Minnesota’s Marco Scandella was fined for an illegal hit to the head on Oshie. Last year New Jersey’s Bobby Farnham was hit with a four-game ban for taking a late, cheap run at Dmitri Jaskin while Reaves was on the ice. There are also several other borderline hits that did not result in supplemental discipline (like this, and this, and this).

          This isn’t to suggest that Reaves is bad at his job or that he is somehow responsible for those plays.

          It is to point out that dirty stuff is still going to happen to star players whether he — or any player like him — is there or not.

          Players like Tom Wilson, and Brandon Dubinsky, and Bobby Farnham are paid a lot of money to rattle the cages of players like Sidney Crosby and Evgeni Malkin. That is what they do. That is their role and they are going to do it whether there is a physical element in the other team’s lineup or not.”

          That was from an article by Adam Gretz on nbc sports.

          Let us continue with #narrative though.

          • Egelstein says:

            I read that article, and agree. This is just what some players do, and they don’t have an NHL job without being an agitator…which means that they certainly aren’t going to stop doing what they are doing. May as well retire if they’re gonna let the other team’s goon phase them to the point that they stop agitating.

  19. SalMerc says:

    Read on another site that Holden might be being shopped around. Either for a 3rd/4th line center or a backup goalie. Teams like Anaheim and Winnipeg were mentioned. Can’t say how truthful it is, but it could make some sense.

    Maybe we are going to give Day a real shot to make the team. His $1.6M is not crazy and we could use it to give to Smith.

    • Reenavipul says:

      WPG might make sense, but would rather overpay a UFA on 1yr deal.

      That’s just me.

      • 43 says:

        The point of trading Holden would be cap relief, though. Not to overpay for a 4C.

        • Reenavipul says:

          The Rangers don’t need cap relief at this point and Holden’s a UFA next season, so unless you’re getting a 3-4C back with a great contract, what’s the point?

          I’ll pay Hanzal $8mm & Gagner $6mm(or Thornton, or whomever) on 1 yr deals and still have $ to get Smith & Stone signed and have cash to spare on expiring contracts during the season after I extend Miller, Hayes & Skjei.

          • 43 says:

            You don’t spend $6-$8 mil on a 3C. That’s ludicrous thinking.

            • Reenavipul says:

              You do if you have 2 centers for your top 6 but only 2nd yr AHL players for your bottom 6. You shouldn’t settle for the guy you think you want, make sure you get him.

              You should also note the term. Players are gonna want term, this particular season there’s no reason to do so beyond your own roster. Give em 2 years worth of money in 1, then they don’t even have to say goodbye when they leave.

              You should also note who’s coming available next season.
              Most years you’d be right in saying you don’t pay $6mm for a 3rd liner. This year is not one of them. The decks are cleared, worthwhile to keep them cleared for next season as well.

              You should probably spend more time over at capfriendly.com

    • Egelstein says:

      Anaheim has probably eight defenders in their system better than or flat-line projected to be better than Holden. They could use some more skilled forwards. Their goalie situation isn’t great. I certainly can’t rule out that he would be a piece of a bigger trade…but if the site was talking about a one-for-one, Holden for an Anaheim C or goalie, I just don’t see that. Stranger things have happened before I guess, though!

  20. craig says:

    Seen on video the kid get his butt kicked a couple of times in minor league games, definitely can’t handle himself very well right now. Maybe he needs to have his butt kicked in the NHL a few times by a few tough players, his coach, refs, and even his own team-mates. Maybe that will shut his big mouth and adjust his bad attitude so he can grow up.

    • ANGRY WIENER DOG STAMPEDE says:

      Aren’t the minors known for having ‘tougher’ players?

      Says a bit about a kid willing to fight above his weight……

      • Reenavipul says:

        Or it says that no one will back his nonsense.

        I grew up with loudmouth Guidos in Jersey. Made for lousy teammates/friends. Talking loud and saying nothing, with everybody else cleaning up their mess. Hockey culture don’t cotton to that.

        • ANGRY WIENER DOG STAMPEDE says:

          At least he shows some emotion, unlike the rest of the team….

          Anyways, in a league of guys like Marchand, I’m not so sure how relevant old time ‘hockey culture’ even is anymore….

  21. Mr Doe says:

    Clearly.

  22. supermaz says:

    “Any defenseman that is even rumored to be bad in the defensive zone doesn’t get the necessary ice time, even if those rumors aren’t true (Yandle)”.

    If you really believe Yandle is good in his defensive zone, then you’ve lost all credibility in my opinion.

  23. 43 says:

    Not a fan of this kid. He’s clearly a d-bag hothead with a warped view of the world.

    • ANGRY WIENER DOG STAMPEDE says:

      You know, I find the exceptionally negative attitude towards DeAngelo among many New Yorkers to be kind of interesting….

      I don’t mean to bring up the ‘P word’, but….

      Suppose the kid vocally supported .. um, let’s say Batman, for example…… do you think your negative predisposition towards him would nearly as strong?

      Probably not.

      I just find it peculiar that we are apparently now using incredibly irrelevant metrics, from a hockey-skills perspective, to evaluate kids nowadays…..

      • Reenavipul says:

        You want teammates/friends you want to go to war with or for, not because you have to back up their mouth. This is why no teammate ever gave a hoot about Avery anywhere he played.

        If you don’t get that unrecorded metric, I’m at a loss.

        • ANGRY WIENER DOG STAMPEDE says:

          That’s my point, though – the animosity isn’t coming from that concern…

          (A concern which isn’t entirely off base. However, I think Avery showing emotion, even if it was the wrong way, is a hell of a lot better than some of the crap we see today).

          No, I’m upset that people are writing the kid off mostly because of pololitics, instead of what he may or may not do as a Ranger.

          If it were solely over ‘the attitude’, the same people wouldn’t be clamoring for the likes of Evander Kane.

          • 43 says:

            Aside from vocally and unapologetically supporting a controversial figure who’s spouted bigoted sentiments, DeAngelo having multiple physical altercations with refs, using racial slurs against opponents, having altercations with teammates, and the Rangers being already his third NHL home does not give me much to think highly of this kid or his potential.

            Are those metrics relevant enough for you?

            • Rich S says:

              I am old school mainly because I am old…..so I dont F@#$%^g care what he says or to who the F$%^&*k he says it too as long as he can play hockey……Lets go back to ‘sticks and stones will break my bones but words will never harm me’ ….
              This politically correct B#$%^&*t is done!
              There are/were plenty of great players in all sports who we are told were lousy people [ jim rice, pat ewing, albert bell etc] but who wouldn’t want them on their team?

              • ANGRY WIENER DOG STAMPEDE says:

                Thank you – judge them for what they do…. not what they say.

              • Rich S says:

                43,
                I dont know what DeAngelo said nor do I care BUT
                As Americans, we all should support free speech which is a right, protected under the constitution…….
                Regardless of what they say or who says it…..And not allow the media or educational institutions to ‘brainwash us’…..

              • ANGRY WIENER DOG STAMPEDE says:

                Well put Rich.

              • Walt says:

                Rich

                Wow, now you’ll be accused of being too rough with the tone of your post. I laughed my ass off reading that your too old. Be advised you have company that feels the same way!!!!!!!!!!

            • ANGRY WIENER DOG STAMPEDE says:

              “Aside from vocally and unapologetically supporting a controversial figure who’s spouted bigoted sentiments…”

              ________________

              Whereas you see someone disagreeing with your values, I see a young man willing to stand up for something he believes in (despite the immense unpopularity of the aforementioned beliefs).

              Regardless of what I believe, I greatly respect that, especially when you consider the age group he belongs to & how they treat those whom they disagree with……

              “DeAngelo having multiple physical altercations with refs, using racial slurs against opponents”

              ____________________

              Well, this you have a point about; I don’t see a Selke trophy in this kid’s future.

              However, again, if this crap were such a great concern, so many of you wouldn’t be adamant about other ‘bad attitude’ players (like the previously mentioned Evander Kane).

              Like I said, if the kid had a ‘BATMAN 2020’ sticker on his bumper, most of you wouldn’t even care about this attitude of his.

              • 43 says:

                Do you support David Duke for standing up for what he believes, too?

                Do you see how that logic can get you into trouble?

                Bringing up Evander Kane is a red herring. Myself, I have never been on that bandwagon.

                Players with as much baggage as DeAngelo don’t usually do anything but detract from a team. Two NHL teams have already moved-on from him.

                Look, if he didn’t have all the on-ice issues, I wouldn’t mind his political views. But when you couple the two things together, it portrays him as a confrontational jerk.

                I don’t see him working out well in NY. I hope he proves me wrong. I really do. But I don’t see that happening.

              • ANGRY WIENER DOG STAMPEDE says:

                “Do you support David Duke for standing up for what he believes, too?”

                ______________

                So now you’re conflating a kid who supports someone you don’t like with a white supremacist….? False equivalence much…?

                …. speaking of logic, do you not realize how insane what you’re saying is?
                ____________

                About the Kane thing, sorry, I thought you were.

                You’re right. he has a lot of baggage.

                I’m just pointing out that disagreeing with his polotics is one of the worst points you can mention with regard to this issue.

                My point is, I don’t CARE if he’s a jerk, at least as a person. Actually, after seeing guys like Daisy et al, I think it’s a refreshing change of pace to see someone out there showing one iota of emotion other than the goalie.

              • 43 says:

                You said you “greatly respect” DeAngelo for standing up for what he believes in. That’s faulty logic. Just because someone stands up for what they believe in does not mean they inherently deserve respect. To this point, I asked you whether you “greatly respect” David Duke for standing up for what he believes.

                I never said DeAngelo supports David Duke.

              • ANGRY WIENER DOG STAMPEDE says:

                … respecting WHAT someone stands up for, and respecting them for having the audacity to STAND UP for something are two very different things, my friend.

                Personally, in a contact sport that at one time was utterly dominated by neanderthals, I, for one, welcome a player with a little bit of fight in them.

              • ANGRY WIENER DOG STAMPEDE says:

                Well, I edited this before, not sure how long it’ll take for it to go through, so please forgive the double post.

                ___________________

                … respecting WHAT someone stands up for, and respecting them for having the audacity to STAND UP for something are two very different things, my friend.

                Personally, in a contact sport that at one time was utterly dominated by neanderthals, I, for one, welcome a player with a little bit of fight in them.

              • Fotiu is God says:

                Fight The Power, Dog.

                Feels somehow strange, though, weirdly liberating to agree with you.

                Like an 19-year old Iowan/corn fed dame at her first swingers party.

      • John B says:

        I could care less if he supports uncle fester for president. What I care about and causes me concern is this:

        “DeAngelo has had a ton of problems. He’s been suspended twice for verbal abuse of officials, the most recent one being this past January. He’s directed slurs at his own teammates too. ”

        He’s an equal opportunity jerk. To ref’s, to opponents and to his own teammates.

        Will he “grow” out of it? Most likely not. Has Marchand? Has Shaw? Has Kane?

        • ANGRY WIENER DOG STAMPEDE says:

          My point is, yes, he CLEARLY has concerns. If he didn’t, ARI would NOT have parted with him, even if the Rangers *did* ask for him.

          Nor would have Tampa.

          However, as I’ve already said, if the guy supported [your candidate of choice here], do you think the level of negative reaction among Ranger fans would be the same?

          I sure as hell don’t. Which is my problem – people are letting politics affect their judgement of things which are pretty irrelevant to the aforementioned.

          How does [whatever he voted for] affect how well he plays?

          It doesn’t.

          • John B says:

            I can only speak for myself, and will not even remotely attempt to speak for others.

            I can not stress enough, that my issues with him are that he has, even this calendar year, abused officials, and has been a d-bag to both teammates and opponents. The sad part of human behavior is that this most likely is not a newly learned behavior because of politics. The most likely problem is that Anthony DeAngelo has been babied and his poor attitude has been enabled because he has talent and he truly believes his behavior is acceptable. Only time will tell, but have we really seen anyone “grow out” of being an a-hole?

      • Egelstein says:

        If you didn’t mean to bring these things up, AWDS…you have an awful awkward – and allegedly (alleged by me) inefficient – way about achieving said goal of not doing so…by doing so. Your Batman analogy is so…so terribly misguided. I can’t even begin to surmount an argument against that sort of brand of illogical panache.

        My response to 43’s original nonpartisan comment, however, to the point at hand, is:

        I won’t go so far as to say I’m not a fan of this kid…but I’ll say I’m not a fan of how he has conducted himself so far in his career based on the profile reports that I’ve seen. Multiple negative corroborative attitude profile reports usually don’t materialize out of thin air. Where there’s smoke, there’s usually fire.

        That said…I was much stupider at DeAngelo’s age than I am now. And that wasn’t all that long ago, really. I’m hoping Ruff’s no-nonsense-yet-player’s-coach persona plays well with DeAngelo.

        • ANGRY WIENER DOG STAMPEDE says:

          No I did, but in an indirect manner which skipped over the arbitrary points over the aforementioned.

          In an effort to de-clusterf&#$ this entire conversation, allow me to restructure my argument as succinctly as I can –

          What the F&#@ does what he voted for (or didn’t; God only knows if he’s a troll or actually dead serious) have to do with how well he plays hockey, and whether or not he’d make a good Ranger?

          • ANGRY WIENER DOG STAMPEDE says:

            And, by, ‘arbitrary points over the aforementioned’, I’m refering to the fact that you seem to be implying that only (per my understanding; please forgive me if I’m wrong) an [evil, stupid, unworthy of wearing a NYR sweater] type of person could ever hold such views or vote in that manner.

            Which, as I’ve said, I think is ridiculous. People’s views != how well they play sports.

            And, as I’ve said, on a website where people have been BEGGING for Gorton to acquire a player with a modicum of chutzpah, I think conflating his political views with a foresight of how well he may or may not see the game (ie, implying only a moron could ever not vote for the candidate of choice in NY) is beyond ridiculous.

            Hence my spirited responses.

            • Reenavipul says:

              Spirited, yes; but as Yeats wrote,”The best lack all conviction, but the worst are full of passionate intensity.”

              His teammates don’t stick up for him because he voted for Trump, they don’t stick up for him because he’s a jerk. Bragging about voting for Trump is just a manifestation of him being a jag off.

              He was fine in AZ, hopefully he’ll be fine in NY. But he isn’t a little ball of hate on the ice, he’s just a jerk.

              • ANGRY WIENER DOG STAMPEDE says:

                Lol, you dug out a quote for me. I knew you cared…

                In all seriousness, the most important point I’ve tried to make is that if the kid voted for ANYONE OTHER than who he did [hence the Batman, Egelstein], and despite his clearly documented ‘bad attitude’, I’m willing to wager that the backlash towards acquiring him would be a fraction of what it currently is.

  24. pas44 says:

    In sports, especially in sports, people can end up with “Bad Raps” for certain things. In the MLB – A guy can miss 2 important ground balls in 2 different games and get the Rap of having bad hands…

    I understand its well documented the D-Angel (perfect nickname) has had at times mouthed off to officials, and teammates but can it be sort of the RAP that’s not his full make-up following him around?

    Let’s also not forget, things like balling out a teammate, spitting insults at an official plus a bad boy attitude RAP make news. These are just the sorts of things that get pushed to make news & make ratings at the expense of a player that may just have a few infractions but has gotten this “BAD RAP” following him.

    I for one don’t care, Just as long as he becomes a solid player and helps the team win.

    Does anyone know a little bit about Ty Cobb?

    or how about the Barry Bonds RAP…

    I am holding judgement on D-Angel until he plays a little in the big city…

    🙂

    cheers,

    LGR!!!!!!!!

  25. Five Hole says:

    My prediction for DeAngelo – he’ll start the season playing 12-14 minutes/game, for the first 5-6 games, make a mistake, and have his minutes reduced to 6-8 minutes/game for another handful of games.

    Because he’s not getting regular ice team, he’ll make some mistakes which will lead to him getting the Clendening treatment or ride the AHL shuttle back and forth from Hartford.

    And AV will feel pressured to start the kid up with the big boys because of who the Rangers gave up for him, so this will be his usual way of telling fans/sportswriters the kid’s not ready for the big time.

  26. Chris F says:

    “Any defenseman that is even rumored to be bad in the defensive zone doesn’t get the necessary ice time, even if those rumors aren’t true (Yandle).”

    Yandle averaged 19:58 TOI during his full season in NY, more than anyone other than McDonagh and Girardi.

    He also led defensemen in PP time, averaging 2:30ish per game.

    So…