Around the League

Around the League: what is happening in Ottawa?

The past five days have shown signs of life around the NHL, first with the Arizona – Montreal trade, and then with the Barry Trotz contract blunder which leaves him a ‘free agent’ of sorts. A straight trade and a forgetful front office should be enough to keep us busy as fans, but neither of these are as interesting as the trade that occurred yesterday.

If you’ve taken the summer off from hockey (except for your beloved Blue Seat Blogs, of course), you might have missed the trade between the Ottawa Senators and the San Jose Sharks today:

To the average hockey fan, this trade looks awfully one sided in favor of the Sharks (who flipped Mike Hoffman to Florida for trade picks shortly after the acquisition). To the gossip monger, or anyone who follows Canadian media, you know that this trade was a requirement for the sake of the locker room, and that Hoffman had to go. Why? Glad you asked!

Back in March, news broke that Melinda Karlsson, wife of Senators captain Erik, lost their son only one month before he was due to be born. This kind of loss is monumental and overwhelming, and the city of Ottawa rallied around the Karlssons to show them love and support as best as they could. However, there was one person continually trolling Erik and Melinda, making statements that the baby wouldn’t stand a chance with its mother “popping painkillers everyday” and wishing someone would end Karlsson’s career by taking out his legs.

This all came to a head when Melinda Karlsson was granted an order of protection against Hoffman’s fiancée, Monika Caryk, who is allegedly behind these troll moves. An investigation was also launched based on Caryk stalking Karlsson. What seemed like innocent petty drama is certainly not.

In light of some pretty serious accusations, the Senators really had to trade Hoffman; Hoffman vehemently denied these claims, but short of some Gone Girl ish, one doesn’t go to the court in Canada for nothing.

This brings me back, way back to Kris and Anna Benson of MLB and reality television fame. Kris was a highly touted and skilled pitcher whose wife became such a liability that it essentially ended his career. Sure, it’s hilarious that a WAG would threaten to “f-ck all of [Benson’s] teammates” if she found her husband cheating, but it gets less funny when you realize this person was charged with murder, assault, and violated her 15 years probation. Thanks for the knowledge, Wikipedia.

In light of the circumstances, I turn this over to you, reader. Do you find this trade to be justified given the situation, or do you think something else could have been done? Please share your thoughts in the comments.

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  • My biggest question: What the hell is wrong with Hoffman?

    So in light of that question, trading him for a bag of pucks was needed as the cancer needed to be removed from the organizational body.

    San Jose is setting up for a run at someone in free agency and used these trades as a salary dump. I mean eventually trading players to get Hoffman and then trading Hoffman for picks.

    The common thought is that the Sharks want Tavares, but it seems to me that Uncle Lou would not go to the Isles if he knew that JT was leaving, not to mention the strong possibility that Trotz may become their coach.

      • Yep, Rangers still in on Kovy but who knows? Some team gives him 3 years at $6M per then I’m sure that will draw him in.

    • It’s now coming out that Sens owner Melnyk instructed GM Dorion not to trade Hoffman to anyone in the Atlantic division. Instead of accepting draft picks for Hoffman, the Sens plan to acquire NHL players backfired and he was then flipped to Florida. ?

  • Question, Wahlstrom and Boqvist are there at #9, do you trade with the Oilers to get the 10th pick and select both players?

    I think that I would strongly consider that.

      • Walt, can you be a little clearer? LOL

        Bro, this is the “new” NHL. It’s about offense starting at the back end and starting the team out of their own zone into the other team’s zone.

        Most NHL D men cannot defend, but most also do not have the offensive side to make up for their defensive deficiencies. If Boqvist is “Karlsson lite” then I have no problem taking him at #10.

        And for what it’s worth, these scouting reports are exaggerated. Matt Tkachuk dropped to 6th in his draft and that was a mistake. Obviously.

        • Tony

          As of yesterday’s ranking’s by Bob McKenzie, Brady was listed as the #3 in the ratings. These things change that quickly overnight?? That’s why I said the other day that I can’t get too excited until the draft starts, and see what teams do!!!!!!

          • very true my friend, but it’s fun speculating and making ourselves nuts!! lol

        • There is no new NHL, unless by that you mean a management that is so out of touch with reality that one can create a SCF team in one year from scratch. Boqvist should not be a first round pick.

          • It’s an almost new NHL, the GMs are just catching up now.

            Boqvist should not be a first round pick? There are 31 players better than him? Then fire every hockey media person out there, because the lowest I have seen him either ranked or in a mock draft is low teens.

        • Boqvist not good getting the puck out of his own end when under the slightest pressure.

          A 75’ player.

        • Boqvist in J20 playoffs was on for 9 GF but 10 GA. There’s a great breakdown of Boqvist at the Athletic where it shows him skating around the ice like he’s chasing a butterfly, not tracking the puck or his man.

          He thinks he’s too good for J20, but can’t hack it against men. If he was in Canada with extended views, he’d be on Merkley island. But the local scout will be lucky to see him 5x during the season, then it’s just internationals where he’s been hot and cold. But now people are combing through video(not YouTube highlight reels) to get a deep look and don’t like what they’ve seen(and what I saw.)

          He wouldn’t be on my do not draft list, but I’d need two picks to want to take him.

          Let’s hope the Isles take him at 12.

          • His defensive liabilities are well known, but it seems like his offensive upside might make up for it.

          • His D liabilities have been soft pedaled: saying his D needs work is like saying the Andrea Doria had as slight accident and took on a little water from it.

            His gap control is non existent, consists of flailing with his stick. Can get beat outside with speed, inside with power.

            Once in the zone, he is weak side coverage that couldn’t cover a sneeze.

            He’s years away from Gilmour’s TC effort

            He could be Karlsson in 5 years, could be May Gilroy.

            You’d have to pair him with a fast skating shutdown D to cover his 6 and that’s after teaching him positioning 101, putting 30lbs of muscle on him and hope he doesn’t keep getting concussed.

          • I don’t want to shit all over this kid, but even his goal scoring is suspect because he sets up for shots in the Ovie spot with nobody covering for him.

            It’s cheating like a mofo and would have to be in a left wing lock scenario where LW is covering his 6 along with the RD when he jumps in deep like that.

            His O skill set is easily suss out on video, only his step inside the D to open up passing/shooting lanes is tough to defend.

            1: From left point he crosses over to the right, takes it below the goal line, looks for passing lanes(which he never finds) then shoots from where he started.

            2: from right side, fakes shot, steps inside, looks to take advantage of collapsing D.

          • Brooks saying that Boqvist not a Ranger target so take that for what it’s worth.

            So if he’s not, then the Rangers have to go to plan B because the other targets may be picked bringing in the next tier of players into play, like Veleno.

            It’s important to the Rangers for someone in the top 8 to pick Boqvist.

        • Well said Ric. I agree, the Rangers need a young puck moving defenseman that can start the rush. If they had that player last couple years, AV’s strategy would have worked and maybe we aren’t here right now. But they don’t have that player and it cost them a Cup and multiple other seasons of falling short.

      • The fact that he’s not proficient defensively at the age of 17 being one of the younger players in the draft isn’t what scares me,he has time to work on that still,but given his size & the fact that he’s had 2 concussions already at that age does scare me,I’m hoping we steer clear of him.

        • Not, proficient? Can’t do it at all. If he was in the right spots and was overpowered at 17 against boys I’d give him a break, but he’s not even doing that. Against men he’s deficient in positioning and in effort.

    • Without question.
      Considering that you’re dealing with Chiarelli, I don’t think we’d overpay for that 10th pick. I’m not going to pretend I know what a realistic trade could be but I think you absolutely have to do everything you can to get that pick. Adding Wahlstrom AND Boqvist would give the rangers two players with elite potential to go along with Chytil. It’s really a no brainer if that pick is attainable.

      • “Considering that you’re dealing with Chiarelli”

        LOL, that is my thinking as well. Between him and the numb nutz in MTL, who knows what good deal you can strike?

      • I’ve read a lot on these guys, I did not see that anywhere. I’m not doubting you, just saying that it hasn’t come up to hurt his draft ranking.

  • Ottawa is making changes why let’s be honest after taking Pittsburgh to 7 in the 2017 eastern conference finals they started making the changes trading Dion to the KIngs and brass to Pittsburgh they will be making more changes to get younger and quicker

  • As SalMerc stated above, they had to make the move, too much trash was accumulating in the locker room.

    On a serious note though, why the hell didn’t Hoffman get his girlfriend straightened out long before this development turned soooooooooooo ugly?

    Thinking about it some more, the Sens are a cheap organization, and this moved also may have been justified by ownership due to his contract as well!!!!!

    • San Jose with a great example of how front loaded contracts make for great trade bait. Boedker is a soft player on a bad deal, but because his cash payout is way less than the AAV, Ottawa was willing to take it.

      When you can afford to do it, use it to the hilt(except on over 30 types.)

  • “With the Rangers in the midst of a rebuild, Mats Zuccarello future was up in the air. We now have some clarity where he will play next year.
    For all of those New York Rangers fans worried about the team trading fan favorite Mats Zuccarello, there is no need to worry anymore.

    In a report by Larry Brooks of the New York Post, Zuccarello is expected to be with the team at training camp. Brooks noted that the only way the Rangers would trade Zuccarello is “unless there is a dramatic shift this week.”

    Without a doubt, Zuccarello has become a fan favorite since making his debut with the Blueshirts back in the 2010-2011 season. Most thought his height would be at a disadvantage, but it only made the Blueshirt faithful love him even more.”

    Interesting stuff, and I for one have no problem with Zucc returning, unless a huge offer is made, or a very good trade is proposed that included Zucc!!!!!

    • Ah yes, another article from Brooks where he says something will happen unless it doesn’t. 🙂

    • That’s all code for Zucc is not worth what the average NYR thinks of him around. It’s either because Kovy isn’t coming or for JG to flip him at the deadline.

  • This is going to sting, but I am going to say it anyway.

    Is there evidence that Melinda was taking meds that could have caused this?

    Do not take my words as giving Monika a pass for speaking out harshly but I see part of a large story. Pain pills are frequented by athletes, and it’s not completely crazy that a partner would be taking them as well, millions of people are.

    My point is why has an accusation that would put different light on this tragedy being lost?

    The parents lost a child, that’s a complete tragedy, the statements made about it are horrific, and if the mother was taking pills that are dangerous this would also be horrific and tragic, I would like to know everything and not just part of this

    • Pass,
      Extremely intelligent post.
      All the public knows is what’s reported in the press. Only the investigators know all the facts.
      There’s is a criminal complaint and therefore a criminal investigation. The investigators will do their job and if warranted the courts will pass judgement.

    • If all she did was suggest that pills were a problem, I might agree with you, but, according to Canadian sources, Hoffman’s girl basically sent out a continuous stream of offensive posts, including the one mentioned here, wishing that someone would take Erik’s legs out. There’s no way she should get a pass, nor should Melinda be subjected to the stigma of having to answer for someone else’s unhinged remarks.

      • I completely agree, the campaign of harassment and harshness are just plain ugly.

        But I have to admit, if I see a girl smoking while pregnant, or drinking, I sort of want to walk up to them and go off.

        If it was known that the mother of a baby, yet to have any chance of survival other then whats fed to it in the whom, is taking drugs of any sort…

        I am less inclined to care about the harassment… At all.

        Perhaps, and this is not fact, its my thoughts, perhaps the girlfriend knew not only the mother to be was taking such meds, but that the father to be also knew?

        I am just saying… I would wish Ill on him too.

        perhaps the finance can not conceive, maybe they aren’t able to have children and are witnessing this…

        who knows… I agree its just horrific…

        I feel bad all around

        LGR LGR LGR

        I just want to talk hockey!

        lol cheers,

    • Harassment is the issue at hand. If what the Karlssons allege is indeed true, that’s basically a form of stalking in my book. If Melinda Karlsson was taking pills that led to her child’s death (which, hoo-boy, that’s one hell of an allegation/accusation), that’s obviously quite unfortunate. If toxicology comes/came back indicating as such, I’m not sure what Canada’s laws are regarding fetus endangerment. I don’t think it would have changed the Senators front office approach if it had already proven to be the case, in any event, and it wouldn’t matter to me personally at all in terms of evaluating what Hoffman’s fiance did.

  • Trades and negotiations are all about leverage. Ottawa had absolutely none, quite frankly I could make an easier argument that SJS overpaid, than OTT got ripped off.

    The easy solution here is for Hoffman to dump this crazy SOB, and that could’ve gone a long way to healing things in Ottawa, and restoring his reputation. Locker room cancers are just that, cancer. And he’s benign right now but very very very close to becoming malignant, if his girl can’t calm down the crazy.

    Time will tell, but Ottawa had no choice here. Which sucks for their fans, I really do feel for them.

    • If you think you can make an easier argument that San Jose overpaid, you’d be mistaken. Even on a head to head deal they came out of it with better value, then flipped that better value for even more value.

      Ottawa got what they wanted: no Hoffman and a player who helps them hit the salary floor at a cash discount.

      San Jose got what they wanted: more cap room to move on Tavares, no Boedker and more picks.

      Florida got what they wanted: another scorer to get them in the playoff hunt.

      • Basic economics. When there is no demand for a product, a sole purchaser can write his own check and the seller will be forced to accept, or hold.

        In this case, the only other (known) buyer, was Florida, who Dorion stupidly said, “not trading in division” too.

        While I agree that SJS was a massive winner, as a blind observer, not knowing of any other suitors, in the words of our supreme leader, they could’ve won more bigly

        • They’ve beennshopping Hoffman for months, this was common knowledge. You assume any team is interested in him until you realize he plays way less D than even Karlsson does.

          It would’ve been more than 2 teams, but time sensitivity limited how little you could offer. After July 1, you could get Hoff for pennies on the dollar, but before the draft not so much.

          • If after the draft you could’ve gotten him for pennies on the dollar… what would you call the return Ottawa got for him?

            They got a barrel of monkeys and a high five.

  • “Two concussions in one season (if true) for an undersized defenceman worries me quite a bit.

    Would honestly be enough for me to steer clear of him in that 5-10 range and go with Hughes, Bouchard, Dobson, etc.”

    Edit: Definitely not that I don’t think he’s a quality player… I just personally don’t think he stands out among the other guys in that range. The concussions are enough to knock him down a level imho.

    This is from the HF Boards-read this this morning!!!!!

    Let’s hope this isn’t another false report, as yesterday, I don’t like my credibility questioned when it’s put out there by the media!!!!!!

      • From what I just looked up, all the talk of the concussions is on message boards, not from media sources.

        Doesn’t make it any less true, but I did not see anything from the media stating that was the case.

  • Ottawa has to restore faith in their team and a confidence within their lockerroom. A stingy GM has put a good core of talent on edge by continually taking the cheap way out.

    While there are 2 parties feuding, the team needed to address this before it blew up. This is not a cause of a team problem, but the effect of poor management.

    Draft Week – After looking at what the NY Yankees have been able to do by adding youthful talent to a few talented studs, makes you think that 2018/19 could be prosperous. The next 15 days will shape our team for the near future. Who we draft, who we move and who we court in free agency will clarify the roster. I do not expect Taveras, but I do expect we look for a talented scoring winger somewhere. Are we ready to turn over the backline to 2 rookies or will we try to move Skjei for another early first-rounder.

    Fun times ahead so let’s start the show!

    • It’s the Senators’ owner, Eugene Melnyk that’s stingy, not the GM.

      Let’s not forget that the Rangers bought a 2nd round draft pick from Ottawa two years ago in the Zib/Brassard trade for the low low price of covering Brassard’s $2M roster bonus.

      Yes, the Rangers ultimately squandered that pick by trading for Brendan Smith, but the point stands, Melynk is more concerned about money than the Sens being successful.

  • No to Bovqist…yes to Bouchard Dobson

    As for Hoffman we don’t know the story and never will. I know people lie, why do I keep saying this? Personal experience. There are people in this world that need attention and the more dramatic, the more attention for a very short term, almost like a drug fix.
    Still there is no evidence supporting Karlsson’s side other than the accusation

    Hoffman gets a new start, and frankly I think he will be much happier in FLA.

    I wouldn’t touch Karlsson or Hoffman yet after this debacle people still clamor for Karlsson. Let’s face it, there is bias, it is called human nature.

    Ottawa needs to blow it up to begin a new and like us they need to do it right. Unlike us they are in a vulnerable position. There are lessons everywhere to teach us, it’s just a matter of having the wisdom and desire to want to learn.

    So in the meantime Sharks Win big, Florida wins and Ottawa wins, Why does Ottawa win in my eyes because they need to clean house in any way they can. So they get far less value for Hoffman but it’s far more important to clean up the locker room which means Karlsson has to go too. Karlsson is not blameless in this my instincts tell me.

    • The Karlssons hired a private investigator and – from my understanding, so apologies if this is incorrect – were able to trace hundreds of derogatory remarks back to Caryk. Who knows what Hoffman knew… maybe he just knew that his fiancee didn’t get along with Karlsson, and figured that was the end of it, but to get to the court system in Canada is much more difficult than it is for us here in America. It seems like there was some hard evidence.

      • My point is Hoffman is being vilified from the onset. That’s foolish

        When the facts are out, then assess. I am not going to call out someone just on hear say.

        Hoffman trade was a win for everyone involved, that is my point. Even Ottawa.

        • Turning a 60 point winger into a busted, former prospect – Boeddker, and a roster filler D is not a win.

          Ottawa would have been better off terminating Hoffman’s contract or releasing him to the minors. Or, I don’t know, maybe the GM should have told the owner to go sit in his luxury suite and make the (better) trade directly with the Panthers.

          The idea of not wanting to trade a player inside your own division is such a dated and stupid concept. That idiotic thinking alone makes this trade a disaster for the Sens.

          Basically the Sharks picked up Hoffman for the Rangers’ equivalent of Fast and Gilmour.

          • You may think them unwise but the Senators actually wanted the players they got. Certainly trading with the Panthers would have been better than terminating his contract (were that even legal), but the Sens actually turned down the sort of package the Panthers gave the Sharks, which provided the opening for San Jose.

          • If that’s what they wanted, they are unwise.

            Melnyk took a bad situation and made it infinitely worse by imposing two conditions on his GM.

            1) Get me roster players for Hoffman

            2) Don’t trade Hoffman to 7 of the other 30 teams in the league (i.e. the Atlantic Division) AND comply with Hoffman’s limited NTC.

          • Had zero cause to terminate contract, stashing him in the minors left $4mm of dead cap space.

        • Also, Leather, while the harassment may very well be hearsay, the uncomfortable situation in the Senators’ locker room was very real.

          Hoffman was a problem. We’re not talking about discipline or legal ramifications, that’s when the facts become important. Once most of the players say they don’t want this guy around, it’s time for him to go. Is it unfair? Maybe. But if it got to this point, Hoffman was likely already a sanctimonious jerk and his teammates were looking for any reason to be rid of the guy.

          • Chris A

            That’s why it was a win for Ottawa too….and better to get something rather than nothing. I guarantee you everyone is pissed in the Ottawa organization and I don’t think Karlsson’s camp is exempt from this.

            Someone mentioned the unfortunate surroundings that transpired to the Karlsson family and he has a point that those circumstances could’ve been a major contributor.

            I also know more often than not the one who initiates contact with the police is actually the culprit. Grown ups handle these type of circumstances internally without the need for law enforcement. There is a line you cross when police involvement then becomes necessary. I don’t know if that line was crossed, however my instincts tell me they were not. Obviously this is my opinion and speculation.
            If it was serious there would have been arrests already. I guarantee you if this was initiated under a false accusation then Karlsson is done in Ottawa.

            As much as Hoffman is being considered a problem, so is Karlsson. This is where I am making my point to this whole issue, getting a feeling that Karlsson is getting a pass here. I now think of Karlsson the same way I view Evander Kane. Don’t want attitude problems and drama queens in my locker room.

            These types of stories folks is going to become much more frequent. Sad really

          • I get you. Karlsson is the better player though, so Ottawa is going to side with him.

            Might not be fair, but that’s just how the world works. You want to be a professional athlete making millions of dollars, there is a responsibility to keep your nose as clean as possible.

            Siding with your troubled fiancee over preserving your career is the right thing to do, but if you are going to take a stand, you have to be prepared for any repercussions. This is a very odd, no bizarre, situation, but it happens. Like Becky said, it is reminiscent of Kris and Anna Benson. Now Kris was a little older than Hoffman, but you can see how problematic it can be when your significant other tries to interfere with your professional life.

            Fortunately for Hoffman, he gets to keep his job and gets a chance at a fresh start. Imagine if Hoffman was a 4th line plugger. He would be run out of the league so fast his head would be spinning. Ottawa stands to lose the most here as they just gave away a top line winger for pennies on the dollar.

            Anyway, my point is that to call this a win for Ottawa isn’t right. Maybe they made the best of a terrible situation, but it isn’t a win by any stretch.

          • Wasn’t a win, just a Pyrrhic victory. Got a scrub who saves them cash, a marginal prospect and a crappy lottery ticket.

            Hoffman goes not because of Karlsson, but because the rest of the guys in the room. No one wants to be around a shrew, either players or WAGs. Both Hoffman and his gal get a blank slate, for his sake I hope she gets a clue.

            Karlsson is gone at some point, it just depends how much of his salary they retain to move him and if they want their picks now or in the future.

            Ottawa is going to struggle to get to the cap floor, would have to retain salary to get Hossa from Chicago along with their 1st.

            2019-2020? They might have to give up picks to *get* bad expiring contracts.

            Ottawa heading towards Ted Stepien territory.

        • “When the facts are out, then assess”

          you’re ignoring the facts. ex-Sens’ significant others are saying how surprised they are that IT TOOK THIS LONG for the order of protection to be requested by the Karlssons. So you have people outside of the Hoffmans and the Karlsson corroborating the Karlssons’ side of the story.

          THAT means, this has been going on for a long time. And either Hoffman is delusional, an enabler, or a psychopath himself, to allow this to go on for so long.

          I would have done exactly what the Sens did, get rid of the problem.

    • I rather see JG make a play for Doughty. He is someone who will step up in the locker room, bench and ice. He can play with a edge, blocks shot and go end to end like any other elite puck moving D man.

      • Panarin may not re-sign with the CBJs and may become available for trade.

        Nothing specifically related to the Rangers but they do have the assets and the cap space for a deal like this.

        • They certainly do. Panarin may simply be creating leverage for himself. That’s what Stamkos did IMO; he never wanted to leave TB. Just wanted to keep TB uncomfortable enough to match or come close to open market value. On the flip side, some guys are mercenaries and want to hit free agency no matter what when they get that first chance to do so, and if that’s Panarin’s MO, then it will be risky for any team to trade for him.

          If I’m Gorton, I’m looking for the trade-and-extend scenario to be fully in-play given the cost of what Panarin will command. If that is in play, then I’d love to see Gorton get him for a fair cost. Panarin may be interested as well given the obvious general appeal of being a Ranger, but furthermore the growing ranks of Russian faces in the organization, and then we have another Russian vet to conversely mentor them. As much as I really want that ninth pick, this is the type of player you gladly give it (and more, of course) away for. While I like Kreider’s game plenty still and still feel we haven’t seen his ceiling, P-Z-B sounds awful nice to me. Kreider-Hayes-Zucc sounds just fine to me as well, and Kreider-Hayes-? is a good start also if Zucc moves. Kreider shoots left; wonder if he can play RW? If he could hack it adequately, then perhaps even Kovy-Hayes-Kreider with a Zucc move, if the Rangers are still as interested in Kovy as some maintain is still the case?

          I’m not, at all, getting my hopes too high. It is awful exciting to think of the possibilities here, though!

          • Panarin is great, but he’ll be 27 this fall. I’m not giving up the #9 pick and more to sign an aging forward long term. Panarin will be 28 in the first year of his eventual 7 or 8 year contract. If you really want Panarin, wait until next summer and sign him then.

            As Rangers fans we have to stop trying to take shortcuts. 26-28 year old superstars are just a year or two away from becoming fading superstars. If you have a one or two year window to win, it’s worth the risk. But it’s a fool’s errand to attempt to build around those players. Watch the Isles. They are going to move heaven and earth to sign JT long term and in three years we are going to be reading about how JT has turned into a very expensive 3C.

            UFAs are not where teams should look for top of the depth chart type players. Bottom 6 Fs and bottom pair Ds are what FA is for. Anything else is a damaging overpay since UFAs, virtually always, are already beginning the decline phase of their careers.

          • I’d agree with you if Panarin was 31, his NHL mileage was high, he had an injury history, speed was his main asset, and the Rangers were locked into other forwards for long terms and big money already. None of these are the case, and whether or not you groomed the guy, every star gets paid eventually. The Rangers are not gonna be bad for the amount of years it takes to do what the Penguins (for example) did so long as Dolan owns them; that’s just not a realistic expectation for this organization right now. They could wait, sure…however, that obviously also poses the risk of missing out on him entirely. Again, I’d need that trade-and-extend in place if I was Gorton…and maybe that isn’t even realistic in the first place.

          • If the Rangers miss out on Panarin next summer, go out and get the next 80+ point UFA, Seguin.

            If the Rangers were planning on contending this year, I’d consider trading for Panarin. But they aren’t going to contend this year. Save the assets, target another UFA, and use the #9 pick to draft a player that should help in 2 or 3 years when the Rangers are ready to contend again.

            There’s always another PPG or near PPG forward at the top of the UFA heap every summer.

          • Yeah Seguin is the type of UFA the Rangers should focus on when the time is right. His coming to the Rangers is 1 year too early but well worth it to sign him and let him grow with the team.
            I approve of his signing

          • I personally think Gorton may be planning on making the playoffs again next season more than some fans do. Again, NY’s definition of terms like “rebuild”/”revamp”/re-tool”/”re-whatever” in the Dolan/Sather era do not mean what they do for many other teams. Panarin also in no way means they couldn’t go for Seguin as well if they like; right now they have $41.5M on the books for ’19-’20 and $30.6M for ’20-’21. Granted, RFAs figure to eat some of that up this summer, but still – that’s a healthy amount of cheese for Gorton to play with. Panarin has been remarkably consistent and again, has low NHL mileage on him compared to most other guys at that age who produce like that. I think he’s about as safe as any of these scenarios ever are, but just my opinion. I’m not calling for the Rangers to gut the farm for him, by any means.

          • There’s not too many assets that are untouchable for a trade and sign like this.

            Sorry boys and girls, but I would trade the #9 pick for a deal like this. Not too many point per game players in the game. And he’s only 26.

          • Panarin is 27 in October. He’ll be 28 when he begins his 8 year extension. Whoever trades for him and signs him will be paying Panarin $9M+ a year to be present day Corey Perry (i.e. terrible) from 2022 to 2027.

          • There are not that many young, dynamic players in the league, but he’s one of them.

            The Rangers at least have to ask. And, obviously, the Rangers do not do anything unless an extension is agreed upon.

            The chances of all this happening is slim to none, but it’s worth looking into.

          • I’m not sure Corey Perry is a very good comp at all. His knees have been a problem on and off for a real long time, and his game is far more based on the grit work than Panarin’s. Back when he was 26, it wouldn’t have been rocket science to be concerned with his longevity given his style of play. Not to mention, Perry causes himself some grief by playing with a little too much snarl at times and committing some arguably-dirty plays as a result, which of course triggers physical retaliation at times.

            Either way, when it comes to the money, this is how the NHL works these days. 26-28 year old ~PPG players get paid when they get their first chance to. Some younger guys get paid in the 24-26 range because they were in the league at an exceptionally young age and have dominated of course, but those guys don’t usually end up walking; their teams understandably work very hard to keep them on board. Obviously you’d prefer to have a PPG player who came up in your system and had scored his past points for you to earn the money. The Rangers don’t have that guy in their system right now, however, so if they want to become relevant again in a hurry – which, again, Gorton seems rather interested in especially if he’s looking hard at a player like Kovy and given that he flat-out said the team won’t be all kids – he’s gonna have to pay for someone (or a couple someones). It’s real easy to scoff at what players cost as a fan, and I feel like some fans are never happy with contracts that aren’t pure robbery.

    • This will be the worst trade rumors for Hayes. Torts fell in love with him while he was unemployed after his Nucs coaching gig, he would ask to push for him.

      I don’t think Torts would want Kreider in any shape or form. After all those times of sending him down, it looks like he never broke out or at least nothing on a elite level like he was suppose to. If Buch could help sway them then you add him in the package 110% of the time. He will never be like the Bread man. Maybe that teams fooled into asking for Andersson. The screwed up part is that I’m over playing their value, I think JG would get out bid here.

      • Please, please, please, I’m begging you bro. I’m on my knees crying to the Hockey Gods above, asking for inner strength.

        That you are not telling me no for a Hayes for Parinin trade.


        • Agreed, I’m as big a Hayes fan as there is, but even I would pull the trigger on a Hayes-centric deal for Panarin. Again, I just wouldn’t include the #9 pick.

          I also don’t think a Hayes-centric package lands Panarin.

          • I get the fact that the #9 pick is very valuable.

            But to withhold it for a player who has not played one minute in the NHL for a 26 year old star going into his prime years is not the right move IMO.

          • LOL, ok gotcha. 🙂

            That would be something but I would think that a Hayes, #9 pick, would be the starter for a package for Parinin.

    • I’m in for a Panarin look-see.

      If Kovy says he wants to see some more moves, then by golly let’s get the man another Russian. And a former SKA teammate wouldn’t hurt the cause…

      • This would definitely get Kovy’s attention.

        Looks like Nash is definitely a “no go” for the Rangers (as of now).

  • Had to trade him, sure. But that return is EXTREMELY underwhelming. Especially if Karlsson decides to go his own way after next season.

    • Underwhelming is an understatement.

      The lesson here, kids, is don’t make big trades before the draft. Here are some absolute stink bombs from the last few Junes.

      The Weber trade was a disaster for the Habs, basically led to the Habs blowing up their team and, subsequently, wasting Carey Price’s career.

      The Hamonic trade was monumentally poor for the Flames.

      McPhee took everyone to the cleaners with his various pre-draft trades.

      And, finally, Edmonton gave away one of the top young wingers in the NHL for … a second pair D.

      Actually, maybe the lesson isn’t that teams shouldn’t make trades in June, they simply should avoid hiring rockheaded GMs like Bergevin and Chiarelli.

  • Night be a bit early to be putting lines together. We are not even sure who will be here on July 3rd yet.

    Then, there is the Traverse City tourny, that always showcases someone who can make a splash in October. Remember new coach, maybe the old alliances (like Fast) will not be pre-written in stone. It is an exciting time, but we need to anticipate change.

    • It’s more likely Quinn sees in Fast what a lot of us see in him – a trustworthy, maximum effort, no quit, intelligent player that can move up and down the lineup but who is best in a support bottom 6 role.

      • And it is important to note the huge difference in Ranger eyes between Fast and Hagelin. I think the Rangers view Fast as a quality bottom 6 guy with a salary under $2M; they viewed Hagelin as a quality bottom 6 guy who wanted well above $2M. You can’t afford stars if the bottom 6 costs too much, but you can’t win with six Paul Careys.

        • True, but I would suggest Fast is slightly underpaid and Hagelin ended up being overpaid. Hagelin around 3m per would have been worth doing at the time and his trade was a poor one — unless Gropp somehow turns out to be a real decent NHL player down the line.

          • My point in part is that Fast is the kind of player who gets underpaid and is therefore more valuable than someone like Hagelin who was going to be overpaid.

            I agree that the trade was a poor one, but trades like this are tricky. The Rangers had three choices – keep him at a high salary, something that was totally unacceptable with their budget, trade him, or simply fail to extend a qualifying offer. Effectively, they had to trade a quantity of zero value to them for whatever they could get (in a market where they could likely get something).

            They chose a formerly highly regarded but apparently failed prospect and moving up in the draft to get a player they really prized. [We don’t really know what other offers they had to choose from.] I like the Gropp idea actually, though it did not pan out. I thought getting Etem was dumb at the time.

            But I think grading trades for prospects is tricky. Suppose you could trade Vesey even up for a player who you are assured has a 20% chance of being elite and an 80% chance of being a washout. That is a trade you should absolutely make, but 80% of the time you will look foolish. It should not be graded as a bad trade. To fairly grade the Hagelin deal, it is not a matter of how Etem and Gropp turned out, but how well they sized up the possibilities to begin with. The reason I did not like the Stepan deal is not that getting a promising young right handed defensemen was not a good return, but that I really felt that management talked themselves into overvaluing DeAngelo’s chances because they wanted to believe they were getting potential star in the deal.

          • I don’t disagree, every GM is going to get some egg on their face with these types of trades. I just hope Gropp’s issues were due to the “getting use to the Pro game blues”. The thing is, Hagelin was a proven commodity and I think they should have gotten more value in the trade …. but the market can be kind of funny that way.

          • Except the Rangers nailed it with their assessment of Hagelin.

            Other than a great run in Pitt’s first Cup run, Hagelin has been awful during his latest contract.

            Hags has always been nothing more than a speedy bottom 6 winger. Torts, for all his foibles, wasn’t wrong when he explained why he refused to put Hagelin on the PP in NY.

            Never overpay for bottom 6 guys. You’re only paying for name recognition at that point. Take the no name player (Fast) that will produce exactly the same numbers for a fraction of the price.

        • I agree also with everything everyone is saying with the exception of why did the front office let it get to that point? You negotiate early on in a player’s contract year and find out exactly what he is looking for. And if he believes different from you in the sense he might see himself as a top 6 guy vs. you seeing him as a bottom 6 guy then you trade him that deadline. This way you have time to work out a better deal. This front office is notorious for doing the exact opposite and waiting til the last moment when they are handcuffed and can only get Marty St.Louis for 2 1st round picks and callahan or etem for hagelin or deangelo and a 7th for stepan and raanta. If you know ahead of time that a guy wants 5 million per and he is putting up 10 to 15 goals a year then see you later.

          • They didn’t trade Hagelin that year because he was an integral part of a Cup contender.

            Not every asset has to be flipped at their peak value, that would be a team in a perpetual state of rebuild. The Rangers did get utility out of keeping Hagelin past the trade deadline. Sometimes you have to consider that when you have players near the end of their contract.

        • Soften up on Andersson

          Give him a chance, I hated the pick initially, but the kid has character. If he does what Cody Eakin did for Vegas, it’ll be a great thing. Eakin was sensational in the playoffs for the Knights.

          I think he will end up wearing a Letter for the Rangers, add Lindgren to that too.

          If he becomes a faceoff winning machine. believe me there is a ton of Value right there.

          Yeah 7 was a reach….but that’s on the Rangers not the kid

          • I don’t like to speak about who would get letters on their jersey’s in 3 or 4 years from now. It seems like a tacky type of conversation when the player’s and coaches have to generally vote for that kind of honor. Ever since he threw away his medal in the stands, I could never relate to him as a hockey player, a 3 sport athlete and someone who grew up doing snow board races that always included a ceremony on who place where. If US born player’s are still in the mix than who said they would vote for him? I think there’s a lot of layers to view before you think they hand him that.

            Cody Eakins comparison is a fair one but still a steep one at that. He has always supplied above average bottom 6 depth, played out most of his seasons and could put up 15-19 goals. He was your quality 3c with Coots and Eller until Hayes and Spooner broke into the league.

            Andersson could fall inbetween that which I think will force him on the 4th line with Howden being in the system now. If he plays in the top 9 than my guess is as a winger more than a center. There’s been a lot of better names who couldn’t hack it in their natural position so it shouldn’t come as a shocking prediction. He looked liked a Oscar Lindberg with how he skated. He might be decently fast once he gets going but not enough confidence to instill in most coaches to put him out there against the top centers in the Eastern conference during crucial faceoffs.

      • No one should be safe from a damn good offer — but we should be wary of under-valuing our players as much as over-valuing them.

        • If it happens that Leon Draisaitl is in the equation than Skjei and Zib should help make it happen. Anyone denying that offer is a classic “over-valuing” our players. I would assume that Lucic would have to come over, so give them Vladdy and a 26th pick for them to include their 10th. You put Hayes under a elite 1c and our 1, 2 punch goes up to being better than most contenders looking to win now.

          • Meh, I’d prefer another team takes a chance on seeing how good Draisaitl is without the best player in the world on his line. That cap number Draisaitl carries around is potentially ruinous.

  • Ottawa had to do this. The actual facts about the alleged stalking are actually irrelevant. We know that either Hoffman’s girlfriend did horrible things that should land her in prison and Hoffman backed her up – or the Karlssons have made very serious false allegations about a teammate and his girlfriend. Either way, you can’t move forward with both on the team and a fire sale of Karlsson would be competitive disaster.

    Sadly I suspect that if the roles were reversed, Hoffman would still be the guy who was traded.

  • So is the consensus here that Andersson was a bad pick/ overreach at # 7 ?????
    If that is the case HOW can we ever expect to get better since we cant even pick a good player at # 7???
    If all he turns out to be is a 3rd line player, on top of all the other horrible decisions JG and Sather make we absolutely need a new management team.
    When I think of Strallman, Eric Stall, Yandle, Mcdonagh, jt Miller etc etc and the absolute lack of solid draft picks………Horrible !!!!!!!!!!

    • Time will tell if it was an overreach. Way too early to properly judge the pick but one should note what others seem to think of him as a player, like the powers that be in Sweden. I mean here’s a 19 year old that captained his world junior team and then despite the mini-controversy surrounding his silver medal toss got selected for the gold medal WC team. That’s high praise indeed.

    • Lack of solid draft picks? Look at the recent Rangers roster. Other than Nash, there weren’t many other important players on those teams that logged pro minutes outside of the Rangers org. I say pro minutes because personally I feel that’s where you draw the line on homegrown.

      For instance, I’ll always consider McD a homegrown Ranger even though he was a Montreal draft pick.

      Andersson will be fine. He’s a smart, responsible pivot that likes to shoot and doesn’t shy away from the slot. What more do you want?

      • Chris, I think the frustration of Ranger fans, including me, about their drafting, is that, other than Henrik, there have been no elite picks since Kovalev and Amonte.

        Maybe Cherapanov (RIP) would have been, and probably would have been. But there has not been that impact player picked for the past 25 years.

        That’s a sucky track record. Hopefully Chytil breaks the streak.

        But let me ask you, for last year’s 7th pick: Andersson, Mittlstat, or Tippet? Who do you choose?

        • Andersson, Mittlstat, or Tippet?

          Let’s see in three years time. Grading a draft one year out is pointless, but I think you know that.

          Andersson looks like he has the goods to have an NHL career. That’s really all I want out of a first round draft pick. There’s only a handful of stars in most drafts, and sometimes those stars are at #9, Brian Leetch, and sometimes they’re at #205, Hank.

          And to be frustrated with the current regime for any picks made over fifteen years, forget 25 years, ago is silly.

          • I’m not asking you to grade any of the 3, but who would you have picked?

            And you look at the history of a team’s drafting short-term and long-term. This group drafting has been at it 10 years or so? Maybe more?

            Only one is elite, and that was pure luck with Hank as the scout that discovered him begged the Rangers to draft him earlier in the draft. They used a 7th rounder to shut the scout up, lol. There was no “strategy” utilized by Ranger management to draft him.

            I think that Buch, Chytil, and Skjei have the goods. Andersson might be a nice NHL player. Shesty appears to be the real deal. We’ll see.

        • “But let me ask you, for last year’s 7th pick: Andersson, Mittlstat, or Tippet? Who do you choose?”

          We don’t know who JG wishes he would have taken frankly – and this has nothing to do with how well the players turned out.

          Last year JG had a different mindset than the one he has now. He wanted to contend in 2018. He was looking for a high level prospect who could play center and who could contribute from day one. That is both a tall order and a far cry from trying to draft the best possible player. In hindsight, I believe that even JG knows this was the wrong mindset.

          Who knows what he would have done with a different mindset, probably not even Gorton himself. As it was, Tippett is not even a center so wouldn’t have been a contender. Though none of the trio was ready as it turned out, the presumption that Andersson, the oldest, was most likely to be ready was not unreasonable. Certainly many at BSB thought he would be.

          But whether this particular call was right or wrong, the pattern of making decisions to optimize the short term has lasting negative consequences.

          • Good points Raymond and fair enough.

            I think my point is that with the 7th overall pick, the initial reaction to the Rangers selecting Andersson was disappointment and that it was underwhelming, for right or for wrong. Not “McIlrath” level disappointment, but that it was a typical Ranger “reach.”

            And BTW, I like Andersson.

      • He’ll be injury prone and I can’t see him being any better than Fast in the slot area’s. He might give Vesey a run for his money on his hand eye near the crease but that’s about it. I thought it was interesting that Andersson ice time tends to diminish towards the end of the games. He’s going to be a decent depth scorer if all goes well but nothing to write off about in the OZ and NZ.

  • Any pick in the top 10 should be eventual quality 1st or 2nd line NHL players. Sometime though, they don’t make it. With that said, If Andersson can score 16 – 20 goals, play ‘D’, kill penalties, show leadership, defend his teammates, and plays on the 3rd line, i will be okay with that.

    • Iv

      Agree, but your dealing with a load of wantabe’s GM’s on this site. Me being first!!!!! LOL!!!

    • But see that’s the issue that Ranger fans have with the Rangers, you pick 7th overall, then you expect top 6, at the very least.

      Or you pick 10th, and you don’t expect the pick to be out of the league within a few years.

      The Rangers try to be “cute” about their top picks instead of just using common sense.

      Even now, they are so fixated on Tkachuk, who is a nice talent but is not elite like Wahlstrom or Zadina. Brady may turn out to be a very good NHL player but you cannot teach skill. I am afraid that they will use assets to trade up for him as opposed to just sitting tight at 9 and getting a very good player with that 9th pick.

      • I wouldn’t trade for him either unless its to jump 2 slots which wont be too costly. I dont want Bouchard because he is not a good enough skater and I see his ceiling as a number 4 dman. We must do better then that.

        Tkachuk is a much better player then Anderson. It isnt even close. Lias is a good competitive kid but he was a terrible pick at 7 and a major reach. Middlestadt was right there! He fell into our lap and we once again let a potential star slip through our fingers. JG needs to get this right. This is the most important day in decades for this team.

        • Bouchard is not a good skater?

          I agree with you bro, this offseason is the most important in franchise history in quite a long time. Either will be a consistent playoff team or we will be the Islanders.

  • This was a bad situation, but yes Ottawa needed to move Hoffman. That said, did they check in with Florida? I read they didn’t want draft picks. Which is odd since they may not have figured this out yet but they are rebuilding. they would have been better off to go directly to Florida. Now they have Boedker on a not so good contract.

    This may be the worst situation in Ottawa we know about. But this GM and owner area disaster. You look at the deals they have done over the past few season and this may not even be the worst one. That said I won’t be surprised if Karlsson leaves too. This clearly festered for a long time and considering the sensitive nature of losing a child and someone trolling you about it, I would not be the least bit surprised if he tells the management exactly where they can go. I also don’t think they will pay him. When they come in last place next year they will get to give that pick to Colorado from the Duchene deal.

    Hats of to Doug Wilson. free’s up cap space and a spot and gets some draft picks back. He was the big winner yesterday…

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