Irresponsible Rumormongering

Attempting to predict a bribe for Vegas

jt miller nick holden
AP Photo/Rick Scuteri

The deadline to request players waive their no-move clause for purposes of the expansion draft came and went yesterday. The Rangers did not ask Marc Staal or Dan Girardi to waive their respective clauses, meaning they will be automatically protected in the coming draft. To me, that comes as little surprise. There were no other defensemen to protect, as both Kevin Klein and Nick Holden are certainly not worth protection spots. So why ruin a relationship with a guy that has given his heart and soul to the team?

Don’t get me wrong, I am still of the belief that Girardi will be bought out. But at least that gives him the ability to choose his next destination. As for Staal, he still has some power to choose his, if the Rangers decide to part ways with him as well. But with this move, we know that both Holden and Klein will be exposed. And that gives us a little bit more predictive power on any potential bribe with Vegas.

For Jeff Gorton, keeping the forwards intact is of utmost importance during the expansion draft. Keeping Vegas from drafting Michael Grabner, Oscar Lindberg, and Jesper Fast is his top priority. His second priority is preventing them from drafting Antti Raanta, who holds solid trade value. I believe he will get dealt before the expansion draft, but that’s just my thought process. I have nothing to suggest they will.

That leaves Gorton’s attention on Klein and Holden, and working with Vegas to take one of them. I think Klein is a bit of a long shot, and we now also know that the Rangers don’t think highly enough of Holden’s 11-goal, 34-point season to protect him. Holden does have a lot of value to Vegas, albeit not as much as Fast/Lindberg. So I believe there could be a deal in the works to get George McPhee to take Holden (again, or Klein), to begin the remodeling of the blue line.

I honestly don’t think it would take much to convince McPhee to take Holden over Fast/Lindberg. We are talking a mid-round pick, not a top pick. Holden is not a cap monster, he’s still somewhat useful on a team that needs to build from the ground up (he plays all three strengths). Is McPhee someone that would turn down a third round pick to take Holden over Fast/Lindberg, who are bottom-six guys? I doubt it.

As for Klein, I think that takes a bit more, perhaps an additional pick in next year’s draft. He barely played this year, he’s slow, and his cap hit is double that of Holden’s. Of course, with Vegas needing to hit cap numbers, that may work in the Rangers’ favor, but there are better places to get a cap hit.

If I were a betting man, I’d wager a small amount on the Rangers working with Vegas to take Holden over one of their forwards. I have nothing to base this on, other than it’s what I’d do.

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  • How can we take anything JG does seriously if he didn’t at least ask for the Pylons to waive their NMC???

    No matter what happens, if they remain on this team, we are in deep tapioca. This is a farce, can this team afford two buy outs? How can you improve your defense with these guys dragging everyone down with them? What are the long term implications on the cap? See there are more questions than answers, and we again can thank that cigar puffing clown for what he did to this organization!!!!!!!!!

    • Yes. I mean how horrible has it been to be a Ranger fan these past 10 years? Only making the playoffs nine times…only two trips to the conference finals. Only one trip to the cup finals…just miserable this team’s been…

      • Yes, and knowing that we will lose because the stupid coach won’t put the best lineup on the ice.
        Yes, we kept the wrong coach!

      • No, but what DOES make it ‘horrible’ is the painful possibility of ‘what could’ve been’ if this front office wasn’t run by zombies.

        • ^ This. It’s like folks who point to AV’s 100 point seasons as proof he is a flawless coach. I personally believe better management of the team by both AV and the front office could have netted a Cup if not two by now during his tenure, maybe added 10 points to those seasons. Who knows. Just my opinion.

          However, signing players long term – homegrown or FA – is always risky and a gamble. You just never know. Many a GM has done something that many folks concurred was a home run, but wasn’t even close to a home run as it turned out. A coach roundly failing to see the talent and/or lack thereof on the existing roster, though…I find that harder to forgive.

      • Phil

        The problem with guys like you is that your satisfied with just making the PO’s, while I want to win the whole enchilada. Sorry my man that you settle for second fiddle, and feel good about it!!!!!!!!!

    • you are so spot on walt it makes me sick…..gorton had nothing to lose by asking the twins….
      And that cigar smoking bozo let strallman walk and signed the twins to big money, nmc deals……he is as bad a gm as Esposito and milbery were!
      I want stepan gone by yesterday!!!!!

    • Theres no doubt Sather made some long term deals that aren’t playing out well for us, but maybe JG asked the twins not to waive to play the exact card Dave’s speaking about, moving KK or NH.

      Can the Twins still be traded post expansion? can they waive there NMC’s after the expansion?

      I am not sure of all the rules but could this be the play?

      “Tapioca” nice!!!!

      • Yes they can still be asked to waive their NMC, and Girardi becomes a limited NTC.

        However, to counter. I’d rather lose the 1st round pick and bribe Vegas to take Staal, buyout Girardi and Klein and move Holden for a low pick. If they had, they could have “protected” Holden and attempted to inflate his value a little bit. Giving Vegas a draft pick to take him or Klein is in effect losing two draft picks, as in you gave one up to take a player that you could have moved for a pick yourself. Otherwise known as, bad asset management.

        But all in all yes, yesterday’s deadline was for expansion only.

        • thanks.

          I am going to keep hope alive that the twins purpose has yet to be seen this off season.

          but I know… this is most likely me being a rangers fan…




        • I would like to see them use the 1st rounder (to exile Staal) IF, at the 21st pick, Brannstrom (sp?) isn’t still available.

          I’ve heard too many comparisons to #65 on OTT to be comfortable passing on him.

    • It will for sure stink to still have the twins on the team next year but us fans need to read between the lines a little better. Expect no less than a buyout from one of them and Stepan to get traded in order to upgrade the top 4. I still could imagine for Shatty to sign here which will also help. I think we all need to hold our breathes until the last second for when GM’s are still allowed to ask their players to waive whatever is in their contract.

    • This is very disappointing.
      Is it the lack of balls, or does he have something more strategic in mind? I hope for the later, but fear the former.

    • How do we know that Gorton hasn’t spent the last 20 months speaking with every team possible about whether there was any interest in Staal and Girardi? Maybe the only way teams would take on either of them was with a rediculous that high price rage of draft picks/ prospects added to any trade.

      I’d assume all this means is that there was absolutely no interest in either of them. Gorton has had plenty of time to gauge the market either through trade or expansion.

      Why do you always assume just because what you wanted to happen didn’t happen that it was through incompetency on whoever is in charge?

      • I can only speak for myself;

        I fully agree that Gorton has tried to move both of them and that there is no market. There shouldn’t be a market for either of them.

        I’m saying that by not asking one of them, buyout or not, to waive for the purpose of expansion give the impression around the league that you value the two of them “higher” than those left unprotected. Whether that is the case or not is irrelevant.

        Management is effectively saying; we still value player A and player B higher than player C-F to protect them against expansion team picking them Now if we try to trade any of those not taken, you’ve diminished the value of those players. In this case, if we’re trying to bribe Vegas with a draft pick, into taking a player that has some value in Holden. It is possible that we could have “inflated” Holden’s value by protecting him and giving the image that we “value” him over the others. By inflating I mean maybe a 4th becomes a 3rd, or a 4th and a C-level prospect.

        If we’re trying to get Vegas to take Holden, who has value, over Klein that is bad asset management. If its a pick to select Klein, still eh. None of the players we left exposed are high value or hard to replace. It’s just a matter of managing their limited worth to receive the highest return possible.

        • If John B realizes that by protecting Holden it only gives the image of inflated value, doesn’t the people who do this stuff for a living also realize this too?

    • Yes! Play hardball with those players! Especially the ones that are consistent…really gouge them in the contract area. Why reward a player who spends his career in New York and wants to stay with those silly no movement clauses? You know, we should only give out one year contracts, because NHL players love to play for the Rangers. And why would we need to entice them with anything? Another genius idea!

      • I’m in the group that thinks that even with the twins gone there’s probably a greater than 50% that Stepan gets traded. If any of them are still on the roster than you best believe Stepan’s NMC clause will be taken care of before it kicks in.

    • I don’t agree that Stepan is the biggest issue for the team, or even among them. That said, I’d certainly trade him if the right opportunity presented itself. I do agree that NMCs should be reserved only for players who are as close to can’t-miss as is humanly possible to gauge. At no point were Staal, Girardi, or Stepan (whether or not we agree on how much of a detriment to the team he is) that type of player.

  • i see one of three going either Fast, Lindberg or Raanta to vegas and I see us doing good in free agency if we can free up money

  • Will everyone relax. Gorton has this all under control. The third pair on defense next year will be the envy of every team in the league. We will go with McD/Girardi, Skjei/Smith and Staal and some righty rookie. It will be just great.

    The offense will be better than ever – Stepan centering Nash and Krieder (yes,, the Stepan who disappears for 20 games at a time and the CK who decides when to play and when not to)
    Zinbad centering Zucc and JT (that’s right, the same JT who who hustles but forgets to play both ends of the ice at times

    Hayes, Hayes centering Buch and Glass (thats right, he is now our fulltime 3rd liner, as we need some heart on this team)

    and some run-of-the-mill 4th line center since we lose Lindberg to vegas centering Fast and Grabner.

    Its all good, don’t worry, be happy!!!

      • Who said anything about competing for a Cup. We make the playoffs, possibly win a round or even two. Dolan cashes in some big playoff ticket receipts and some great concessions – this is a business, it isn’t for the fans. Never lose sight of that.

        The fans will be back next year, and the year after that, and …….

        Lots of fans and money in NY, never forget that. AV gets us a good enough team without a real superstar. Gorton doesn’t sign any more outrageous contracts. Everyone wins (except those stupid people wearing jerseys in the stands). Will they ever learn?

        • well put sal/merc…I don’t care about making the playoffs with a mediocre team every year…..just for dolan….

          • When you watch a series like Pitt/Nashville, you know you cannot compete at that level night in and night out, so either you hit the bottle or hit the sarcasm.

            Not sure we have any “chips” to trade to bring us back the defender we need and clear the backend appropriately. May need to have a down year and actually play a 4th line of wannabes. I do not think we can afford 6 years of dead Cap space, so let the fun begin.

          • I agree totally. Pittsburgh pitches 2 shutouts without their number 1 Dman. Why? They play a 5 man game with interchngeable defense. RonHainsey? Is he any better than G? They are a fiercesome backchecking team. No loafers(Hayes,Miller,Stepan, etc.). We are going to play what we have. Maybe get rid of Stepan. Let Nash go after this year. One more year for the twins. Maybe get a top 5 pick next year. Other than that, we will making the playoffs but never able to really compete with the best in the NHL.

          • To be fair, PIT is a crock of $#!T. If Crosby & Malkin’s ‘lifetime contracts’ were rightfully torn up, how much do they think their new deals would AAV at? If Toews is worth 10.5 (for 8), then surely Crosby would net something, on the open FA market, something north of 13? The same is true of Malkin, albeit to a slightly lesser extent (too ‘enigmatic’ or whatever crap excuse they give).

            I am, of course, saying nothing of the sweetheart deal the maple $#!Ts gave PIT on Kessel.

            Point is, it’s hard to compete when generational talents (not Kessel, despite his generously low cap hit) are on bargain contracts. The wonderful officiating is only the proverbial empty netter, IMO.

    • Vegas needs to do a few things. Put a team on the ice, meet the Cap floor and grab enough future picks to build a farm system so their 2020 team is competitive. In order to stockpile picks, you may have to turn a blind eye to 2017/18 just to grab another 2nd rounder next year. If you do that 6 times, you now can accomplish a few things, Getting a good relationship with another GM, meeting the Cap floor and really putting together a nice AHL team to build on. McPhee isn’t stupid. He needs some names and players, but Jesper Fast isn’t going to make him a champion. Holden and a future 3rd rounder might be a smarter play for him.

    • Bribe is not really the right word. The point is that Vegas is entitled to get something from the Rangers and they will take what they consider the most valuable. Picture this as something like Vegas picks Lindberg and then the Rangers make a trade with them to get Lindberg back, offering someone or something that Vegas could not have just taken.

      Personally, I don’t favor a preemptive trade. It leads to the possibility that the Rangers give up a fair price to get Lindberg back to keep them from drafting Lindberg when they were actually going to take Grabner in the first place. In fact, something as ridiculous as giving up a third rounder so that Vegas will promise to take Holden might happen when Vegas actually wanted Holden in the first place. It seems pretty safe to say that Vegas and NYR do not agree exactly on how to rank the value of the available Rangers.

  • I have no problem with Gorton not asking the either player to waive their no trade since there is no player on defense worth protecting with Mac falling into the 3rd slot and Skjei not needing to be protected. For all we know Mcphee wanted a ridiculous amount to take one of them off our hands. If I was him id want 1rst round pick, plus 1 of Buchnevich, Day, Shestyorkin. Maybe Gorton said no to that.

    Maybe Gorton has a deal for Klein to be taken by Vegas with a mid pick involved, which could work for both sides. Vegas adds a pick now, and probably at the deadline, since teams always look to add defensive help at the deadline. Klein has playoff experience, grit, and is right handed, all things teams look to add at the deadline.

    What if Gorton is buying one or both (which i doubt both) out, then he doesnt need to ask them to waive their NMC. Maybe he doesnt buy out either but has a deal in place to send them some place. Theres a lot of maybes, however without inside knowledge (which I dont have) we have no idea what Gorton has talks have been, so for that I cant get mad that he didnt ask the players to waive. I’ll wait and react when things are actually done.

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