Jun
01

Rumored Chicago/Vegas trade opens more expansion draft options

June 1, 2017, by

Kevin Klein

As May has become June, the expansion draft draws closer and closer. Now is when we are likely to hear Vegas making expansion draft trades, as teams jockey to find creative ways to keep the players they want. While trades to account for protection spots are expected, we are also expecting to see bribes to Vegas. One aspect that has been covered deeply is sending picks to Vegas to not select certain players. For example, sending Vegas a 3rd rounder to not select Oscar Lindberg.

However that is not the only type of bribe we might see. There are many different ways to skin a cat. Vegas will need to get to the 2016-2017 salary cap floor by the expansion draft, and then to the 2017-2018 floor by the start of the season. That won’t happen via expansion and free agency. They are going to have to be creative. Perhaps striking deals with teams to take on a contract. While we’ve all thought about sending a pick/prospect to Vegas with a bad contract, perhaps we’ve been looking at this from entirely the wrong angle.

Frank Seravalli brought up an interesting rumor yesterday. While the rumor may or may not be true, it brought up a type of trade we haven’t discussed. That is leaving a player exposed in exchange for making a separate trade to take on a bad contract. In Chicago’s case, leaving defenseman Trevor van Riemsdyk exposed to take on the remaining years of Marcus Kruger’s deal (two years, $3.083 million).

While this has been overlooked by many –certainly including myself– it opens up a whole other discussion. We’ve discussed the potential for Jeff Gorton bribing Vegas with a pick to take one of Nick Holden or Kevin Klein, but perhaps there is something else Vegas wants. After all, Holden doesn’t have much of a cap hit, and Klein has just one year remaining.

What if, and this is purely a hypothetical, the Rangers agree to leave Kevin Hayes unprotected, with the agreement that Vegas sends a pick to the Rangers to take Dan Girardi? That’s a long shot, and something I highly doubt would be entertained as a straight up swap, but let’s elaborate on this for a second.

What if, and again this is a hypothetical, the Rangers leave Hayes unprotected, with the agreement that Vegas takes him from the Rangers and Sami Vatanen from Anaheim. Then the Rangers swap Klein for Vatanen. Vegas winds up with a young top-six center and a veteran defenseman, while the Rangers get a top-four defenseman. You may wonder why Vegas would sacrifice Vatanen in such a deal, but looking at the defensemen that may be available, it’s not out of the realm of possibility. Remember, my trade proposal sucks, but it’s that type of thought process I haven’t seen yet.

I, for one, am really excited to see the carnage leading up to the expansion draft. There are so many possibilities for Vegas, the Rangers, and the entire NHL. I love the creativity behind the potential deal floated by Seravalli. Makes you wonder how creative Gorton is going to be.

"Rumored Chicago/Vegas trade opens more expansion draft options", 5 out of 5 based on 7 ratings.
Categories : Offseason

80 comments

  1. SalMerc says:

    Don’t forget dangling draft picks as well. Also remember Vegas needs talent and some real names on their roster. This could be an opportunity to work a deal with Stepan to another club in exchange for something Vegas wants that we dump to Vegas if a 3rd team is needed to get us that top tier defensive help while getting Vegas an aging superstar.

  2. Brett Schwarzenbek says:

    Here is the issue. The Rangers literally have as few potential NHL players in their pipeline as any team in the league. Therefore, they can’t afford (as an organization down the road) to dangle any young player or even a premium draft pick to just shed a contract. That just isn’t going to happen. As you suggested, though, if they are getting a premium, young asset (i.e. a RHD like Vatanen) in return, then that is a whole different story.

    Another issue is that the Rangers are already leaving a pretty nice asset in Oscar Lindberg unprotected, so Gorton would REALLY have to sway Vegas from simply not taking him. Speaking of, can you imagine if Gorton could somehow use Stepan to intrigue Vegas to take Girardi/Staal (if they waived)? For example, we will leave Derek unprotected if you take Girardi/Staal for a draft pick. That would be quite the cap coup for sure. Hurts the team a little now (i.e. losing Stepan), but opens up premium cap space to reshape the D. Likely fantasy, but we can all dream.

    • Hatrick Swayze says:

      Probably too much cap for LV to take on from any one team….but who knows how it will all shake out.

  3. Jerry says:

    Dave, you could not have picked a better word in “carnage”.
    And there will be plenty of it!

  4. amy says:

    this will be interesting

  5. amy says:

    let’s see what jeff does

  6. john says:

    How about leaving Stepan exposed to Vegas. He has the cap space that they would need and could be their #1 center. His days as a top center in NY appear to be over. The cap money the Rangers would save could go to signiung Raanta, Linberg and Fast, leaving ample cap space to either acquire or sign a top 4 defenseman and another center.

    • Walt says:

      John

      As much as I’d love to see Daisy go, we can trade him for some assets, and should never leave him exposed to the draft ……….

      Now if we can trade him, along with one of the twins, and get back a pick, well I’m all for it!!!!!!!!!!!! Imagine, we get great cap relief, get a decent draft pick, protect our kids, and replace Step with a man………….Now that would be the best case scenario!!!!!!!!!!!!!

      • Al Dugan says:

        Dream on boys. Dream on.

        Vegas, if they took everyone’s deadwood would have a salary cap hit of about 115 million.

        We tend to overvalue our own players.

        • Other Dave says:

          Except for the ones making $6MM or more, then we have to undervalue them to a comical extreme. Stepan wouldn’t only be picked in an expansion draft, he’d be a strong candidate for 1st overall if there were 2 teams picking.

      • Mintgecko says:

        Stepan value won’t be returning any assets like Brass did, it just won’t happen but it’s a safe narrative for the Stepan fans. I don’t even think that he’s going to fetch us a top pair or a really good top 4 name. I agree that we can’t lose him for nothing but at the same time I don’t think he’ll bring in something that good unless he’s apart of a package transaction.

        • Other Dave says:

          Boy oh boy oh boy …

        • Brett Schwarzenbek says:

          I think you would be surprised how much Stepan can fetch. His salary might make the return less than the Brassard deal, but it isn’t far off. He is as consistent at they come, which most players are not. This is coming from someone who was screaming at him all season from my couch.

          • Other Dave says:

            His being 2 years younger and better defensively will make up the salary gap, I’m sure. It might not return what Brassard did, but that’s because Ottawa overpaid, not because Stepan’s market isn’t higher.

          • Mintgecko says:

            I may be surprised with his return? Yet his salary will play a role into what he brings in returned? Lol yeah I don’t think so and it looks like you have that same skepticism as I do. The only way he cashes in a nice haul as much as his fan club that likes to put him on a pedestal after names like Kopitar, Duchene, Bergeron and Backstrom is if it’s to a team that is rebuilding not named after the Leafs or Sabres.

  7. Walt says:

    Just for the record, Jake Guentzel now holds the record for most game winning goals in the PO’s for a rookie, five, and we’re lead to believe that the stars of the Pens are carrying the team??????

    They won a cup last season, and are on the brink of repeating it, with kids that were drafted by the team, like Murray, Rust, etc. What a novel concept, keeping your picks, drafting well, developing the kids, cap friendly contracts, and winning the cup. Now to the advocates of giving away the picks, see what a cavalier attitude like that does for you, get’s you the cup once every 77 years!!!!!!!!!!!!

    • Dave says:

      Malkin, Crosby, and Kessel are 1-2-3 in PO scoring. Guentzel is 4th. So yes, their stars are carrying them. But that doesn’t mean they can win without someone else, like Guentzel, being a big time contributor.

      • 43 says:

        Guentzel for Conn Smythe?

      • Walt says:

        Dave

        True, but this kid is giving them very timely goals, five game winners, that’s got to mean something, and their goalie speaks for himself??????????? The point I’m trying to make is that draft picks are like gold, if you know how to use them, rather than give them away as if they were worthless, like would have you believe!!!!!!!!!!!!

        • 43 says:

          To be fair, Guentzel has the five GWGs, but he also went scoreless for 8 consecutive games, including the entire ECFs.

          • Walt says:

            Big deal, he has 12 goals, but the point is he delivered 5 game winners. How many did Stepan, Nash, Hayes, Miller, etc., this from a rookie who started in the AHL this season. My main point is the draft picks, and what they can do for you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

            • Eddie!Eddie!Eddie! says:

              But Walt, you really just made MY point here. Stepan, Hayes, Miller were all recent Rangers draft picks. What did they do in the post-season? Very little.

              But what would happen if any one of those guys were playing on the Pens, with the elite forward talent they have? I’d be willing to bet any one of them would have Guentzel-like numbers. And if Guentzel was on the Rangers? I suspect he’s be more like Stepan/Hayes/Miller. Good but not great.

              Malkin and Crosby, just like Jagr and Lemieux before them, or going way back Messier and Gretzky, ALL those guys make good players that much better.

              Without the elite greatness, the draft picks are more likely to be ordinary than anything else.

        • Dave says:

          Walt, I get what you’re saying, but you’re missing the forest for the trees. Yes, the Rangers have traded a bunch of picks. But they’ve also nabbed Hayes/Vesey from the unsigned 1st round pick pool. They’ve had great success in later rounds (Buch, Fast). They’ve signed some solid UDFA’s that have a legit shot of making the club (Pionk, Bereglazov).

          Draft picks are just one way of acquiring young talent.

          • Walt says:

            But just imagine if we could have drafted in the first round all these years, how much better would we be???????

            • Eddie!Eddie!Eddie! says:

              It’s not likely we would be Walt. As mentioned earlier, we’ve had MORE picks than the Pens and as many number ones. The difference is that when each team was bad, they drafted elite superstars and we drafted busts. It’s as simple as that.

        • Rich S. says:

          Spot on walt!
          Sather gave away 2 number ones [ and callahan] for 92 year old martin st louis….!!!!!
          More picks for erik stall……

          We have got to keep our picks and stop acting like we are a veteran player away from the cup at the trade deadline!!!
          We have suffered from bad mngt since sather took over!!!!
          Hopefully gorton is different!

          We will find out if he manages to trade stepan and retain grabner, lindberg and fast>

          • Eddie!Eddie!Eddie! says:

            And that trade for St. Louis, who was at that time still one of the leading point getters in the NHL BTW, is that propelled the Rangers to the SCF. That trade was well worth it. And BTW, those picks were so “valued” by TB that they wound up trading them away in other deals.

    • Jerry says:

      3rd round, 77th overall.

      • Brett says:

        Two spots after Buchnevich, I believe.

        • Jerry says:

          Not sure, you are probably correct

        • Dave says:

          2 after Buch. 12 after Tambo.

          Would still rather have Buch than Guentzel.

          • Brett says:

            Reports about Tambo detail that he has yet to put on any significant body size and literally disappears in games where any physical game is involved. Meanwhile Guentzel is lighting up the CUP playoffs. Exhausting to think about.

            • Reenavipul says:

              Tambellini needs to go on a 6,000 cal/day diet and just hit the gym when not on the ice. He’s 22 and weighs what you should when you’re 18.

    • wwpd says:

      Guentzel, Rust, Murray all 3rd round draft picks. Every pick matters but the penguins are not the recent poster children for not trading away draft picks although they have converted nicely in the ones they kept in these cases.

    • Eddie!Eddie!Eddie! says:

      Walt-

      Guentzel has been terrific for the Pens, no doubt. But do you honestly believe that Geuntzel would be as good if he didnt have Crosby and Malkin (and Kessel too) as teammates? Elite stars make the second tier stars that much better. Messier helped to make Graves great. Would Graves have been anywhere near as great if he had played with the Rangers pre-Messier? I doubt it.

      To your point about draft picks, you might be surprised to learn that since 2003, the Penguins have drafted 95 players. The Rangers have actually had MORE draft picks during that period, with 99 selections. Over that same period, the Penguins have had 11 first round selections (including two in 2012). The Rangers have ALSO had 11 first round selections (including two in 2004).

      The difference is that when both the Rangers and Pens were terrible in the early to mid-2000’s, the Pens drafted Fleury, Malkin and Crosby with their number one picks. We drafted Hugh Jessiman, Lauri Korpikoski, Al Montoya and Marc Staal. They draft two of the greatest players of all time and another who is a borderline HOF candidate. We draft a bust, two marginal players, and a guy who was, at his best, a good solid defenseman before his play deteriorated. If the Rangers and Pens had been able to swap picks, it would be the Rangers winning Cups and the Pens looked at as the good but not great team that the Rangers are.

      As for picks being “gold”, since that time, here’s what each team has done with their number one picks…

      Pit-

      2006- Jordan Staal
      2007-Angelo Esposito
      2008–No 1st rounder (no 2nd or 3rd rounder either that year)
      2009–Simon Despres
      2010–Beau Bennett
      2011–Joe Morrow
      2012–Derrick Pouliot and Olli Maata
      2013-None
      2014-Kasperi Kapanen
      2015-None
      2016-None

      Rangers

      2006-Bobby Sanguinetti
      2007-Alexei Cherepanov
      2008-Michael Del Zotto
      2009-Chris Kreider
      2010-Dylan McIlrath
      2011-JT Miller
      2012-Brady Skjei
      2013-None
      2014-None
      2015-None
      2016-None

      Some good players, some ordinary, some busts. But no truly great players to speak of.

      During this time, both teams delved into free agency, signing older players. Both teams traded futures for guys that can help them win now. You put a focus on the young guys like Geuntzel. But what about the trades they made for Kessel (1st and 3rd round picks dealt away), Hainsey (2nd rounder dealt away), Schultz (3rd rounder dealt away) and Streit (4th rounder dealt away)? What about signing a veteran guy like Cullen? Other than Streit obviously, all these moves were critical to winning the Cup last year and quite probably repeating this year.

      When you look carefully, these organizations aren’t as different as you think–except for two HUGE differences named Crosby and Malkin. That’s why they win and we are bridesmaids. Hanging onto draft choices doesnt change that narrative in the slightest.

      • Spozo says:

        Great write up Eddie

        I always laughed last season when the Bonino, Hagelin, Kessel line was all the rage in the playoffs last season. Were they they best players in the NHL? Far from it (I guess you can include Kessel in that argument but the other 2…nah). But when you start a 7 game series against the Pens your game plan doesn’t start at how you shut down a line centered by Bonino. It starts with Crosbys line and then Malkins line. When you have that type of all world talent on 2 separate lines, of course Phil Kessel is going to rip everyone a new one on the third line.

        And great work on the draft picks. It’s amazing what you uncover when you actually research the topic you want to rant about!

        • Eddie!Eddie!Eddie! says:

          Thanks Spozo!

          I should also point out that the Hainsey deal of course happened this year, so obviously had no effect on their Cup win last year. My bad!

      • wwpd says:

        E3- did you count up yourself? I remember seeing, about a month ago, a table showing how many draft picks each club used over the last bunch of years. For the life of me now can’t remember where. But the Pens and Rangers were at/near the bottom of the list. iirc on the other hand Hawks and Kings made a lot of picks.

        • Eddie!Eddie!Eddie! says:

          I did indeed, and doubled checked it on two different sites.

          I was responding to Walt’s point about the Pens vs the Rangers, but you are absolutely correct. Over the last 14 years, the Kings have about 10 more picks than the Rangers and the Hawks an astounding 30 more (rough count). However, look at the ebbs and flows, and also the length of time both franchises were bad. During those dark years, both franchises stockpiled picks and many were truly great selections. Then when they became legit contenders, they were more than willing to deal away picks for players that could help them win now.

          Indeed, look at recent drafts. Neither team has even had 1st round picks, and going back further, neither has really hit “paydirt” with their number ones in several years.

          They scored big when they were awful. The Rangers didn’t. That’s why all three franchises (Pens, Hawks and Kings) have multiple Cups and we remain bridesmaids.

          • wwpd says:

            the penguins drafted #1 – #2 – #1 – #2 from 2003 to 2006 (MAF-Malkin-Crosby-Staal)

            even the rangers couldn’t have entirely messed that up! sadly the team overspent of washed up free agents rather than properly tanking like it should have during the bad years 😉

  8. roadrider says:

    This may be a minority position on this board but I would not risk losing Hayes. Yes, he did not have a great (or even good) last half of the season or playoffs. Some of that gets discounted because he was used in a more defensive role than he had been but even at that he wasn’t good. So why would I not risk losing him?

    Well, he’s young, he’s relatively cheap (yes, getting more expensive, but not in UFA territory yet), he can play C (Rangers don’t have many in the pipeline) and finally – I believe in him. The skill and hockey sense are there – did anyone see the WC game in which he got something like 3 assists and won some kind of trophy for player of the game? With the right line mates, and that may not be Miller or Grabner any more, Hayes could be a very valuable guy to have.

    The guy I would dangle for Vegas in that deal described in the post is JT Miller. I like him but consider him a lot more expendable than Hayes

    • Walt says:

      To your point, imaging Hayes in the position Stepan has been his whole career, always had the best wings??????? I’d like to see him with quality wings, and see how he would produce!!!!!!!!!!!

      • Hatrick Swayze says:

        Hayes faces weaker opponents than Stepan which shouldn’t be discredited. Stepan, though unspectacular, is solid.

        • Mintgecko says:

          No he doesn’t. AV has said it plenty of times that Hayes opens up room for the top 6 to take more offensive FO’s. Countless times he’s taken the tougher draw in the D zone against top lines and he would help rush the puck up the ice.

          There’s a good chance they give Hayes Stepan’s 2c spot next year, I think AV’s is in his corner.

          • Brett says:

            Stepan literally plays against EVERY team’s #1 line, so Hatrick is ABSOLUTELY correct. Most fans don’t realize this when factoring in their analysis of Derek’s play. If they move him, which they might have to, the defensive play will almost certainly take a hit.

            Hayes normally has the best matchup in the game against the other team’s #3 center, but he was given a little more responsibility as the season progressed.

          • Eddie!Eddie!Eddie! says:

            I think he is. If you examine AV’s comments about Hayes over the least few seasons, even in 2015-16 when Hayes was not in top shape, AV was mostly supportive of the kid. And Hayes seems to feel the same about AV, given his comments in The Players Tribune.

            I have no doubt AV is in Hayes’ corner. What I DO have doubt about is whether Hayes is ever going to be anything more than the inconsistent player that he has been throughout most of his young career. And, I wouldn’t at least be shocked if he were dealt in the right deal.

            • Mintgecko says:

              I was going by more of what AV said and his actions afterwards by giving him all the big time late defensive zone draws. For example the way he talked about the new core during his speech after he signed his extension. Talking him up before pre season to say he was the 2nd best condition skater and in Nash’s par was huge to say imo. No JT or after that someone else would be my guess on who they would touch our of the new core, I think Hayes is more safe.

        • Reenavipul says:

          From December on, at home(with the last change) he put Hayes out against top competition because Stepan was getting crushed posessionwise. Hayes got crushed instead. The only time where Step got the home start against top lines was the Washington game.

          • Mintgecko says:

            This was why alot of NYR fans weren’t happy with Stepan this year. He was getting all the favourable offensive draws along with top PP time after Mika went down. Hayes was leading the DZ FO’s before Mika went down and AV used the 4th line to take majority of the other DZ plays. This was why AV could play Vesey with Stepan for alot of the season because they were against lesser talent half the time in the offensive zone to start out. Hayes line was starting majority of the games, I enjoyed watching him battle McDavid, Crosby, Getzlaf, Backstrom etc.

            Hayes maybe lacked possession for some odd reason but with his hands and escape ability which at times fans forgets he has. He was apart of the most lethal line in the NHL at one point and he was leading by points through the thick of things during that time. He also showed the world that he could take advantage of being with a speedy goal scorer by bringing back Grabner’s game to life. When he lead in ice time for the PK it was ranked # 6 and during a time when Hank was struggling a bit. He also posted up franchise records by beating out Leetch and Mess while being shorthanded. I would like to end this and say he’s the best two way 3c of the game so his possession stats aren’t much to worry about if I’m Gorton. 6 points away from Stepan who makes 6.5 worries Gorton more I bet.

        • Rich S. says:

          Solid at what? At best he has been mediocre his entire career, again with inflated numbers because he eats up top power play minutes……
          Take away his power play numbers and his point totals are terrible!
          Lets not forget when he plays against top players [ crosby, taveras etc] he gets killed!

      • roadrider says:

        I’d like to see Buchnevich on a line with Hayes.

        • Brett says:

          Unfortunately this likely won’t happen with AV as coach, because neither guy is great in their own end. That’s basically why Buch wasn’t playing in the playoffs.

          • Eddie!Eddie!Eddie! says:

            That was this past year. Buch had back issues and was probably not in the condition he needed to be in to survive a whole NHL season. I wouldn’t read anything into that at all. As players grow and mature, their usage will increase. Pretty much the same deal with AV and all coaches.

            Let’s see the kind of condition Buch is in when he shows up to camp. I’m expecting him to take a major step forward.

  9. 43 says:

    What’s with all this hypothetical Hayes dangling?

    • Brett says:

      You only trade Hayes in a deal for a killer return, preferable a top end D.

      • 43 says:

        I don’t see Vatanen as that. I thought the consensus on him is that is was essentially a bust.

        • Brett says:

          I concur, 43. Dave is obsessed with him, but Vatanen had a VERY rough season this year for the Ducks.

    • Dave says:

      Don’t read into that. I was just making conversation.

    • Mintgecko says:

      Basically it won’t happen because that narrative goes for anyone that isn’t already a elite. However he’s the best 3c in the league and I wouldn’t be shocked to see him get asked by another team in favor of a top name or nice package with a high pick or prospect in there.

  10. SalMerc says:

    All of this hypothetical GM work is just us having fun. Gorton needs to make his team better and so do 29 other GMs. Are we 1 player away? 2? Who knows.

    The expansion draft is a wrinkle we have not seen in quite some time. Should we dump players for next years draft?

    If we come start 2017/18 without Stepan and without one of the Girardi/Staal pair and add Smith and another top right Dman, I think we did pretty good.

    If we keep Fast & Lindberg, we did Very good.

    • Jerry says:

      AMEN Sal!

    • Reenavipul says:

      Look at Chicago as a warning sign of falling in love with bottom 6 guys. Kruger is on $3mm and is another moderately skilled Swede who can skate.

      I only rate Lindberg ahead as he’s a C over the winger. Use em, lose em as soon as you get to bridge deal territory.

      Fast is a fine, fungible player who has value on an ELC only.

  11. Mintgecko says:

    I think using Hayes as a example to not protect is pointless, Gorton, Sather and Drury are high on him, I’ve read that he’s a popular guy in the locker-room. Imo he could have tied Zucc in points with all the passing plays he set Grabner up with in the 2nd half of the season. I expect him to be the 2c or 1b when he’s on his game and Mika is not, chances are he’s going to be a NYR for the next 5-7 years

  12. Reenavipul says:

    Sami Vatanen is top 4 on a bad team.

    Bigger question is whether getting Kruger(or Klein) via trade counts towards the cap number Vegas has to hit via draft?

    Chicago is in cap hell, Vegas should be asking for more than VanRiemsdyk to take that Kruger contract. Vegas will have D out the ears, will have to trade plenty of them before losing them to waivers.

    In every draft scenario, I’m having a hard time getting to the floor, even with grabbing Fleury and one of the Dallas goalies.

    I’d have a hard time moving Hayes over Stepan, considering how AV misued Hayes from December on.

    • Brett says:

      My thoughts were… how is Van Riemsdyk enough to take on that Kruger contract? Am I missing something? Do they think they are getting his brother? LOL

    • Eddie!Eddie!Eddie! says:

      Misused him? How so?

      Hayes had a pretty bad knee injury as I recall in January, and frankly, whether related to the injury or not, he wasn’t the same player from mid-February to the end of the year. He was arguably the Rangers WORST forward down the stretch and in the playoffs.

      Why is everything the simplistic answer that a poor performance by the player is AV’s fault, but the player himself is NEVER accountable?

      If AV was so bad with young players, please explain why an outgoing Brian Boyle strongly recommended to Hayes that he sign with the Rangers, and that Hayes in turn was a key voice in convincing Vesey to sign. And then all these other young FA flocking to the Rangers. All to play for a coach who apparently has no use for the kids? Makes perfect sense to me! 🙂

      • Reenavipul says:

        AV is the guy who writes the lineup card, he is the guy who makes the last change at home. AV started Hayes at home against the best players(bar Ovie) every. single. game. from mid December. Unfortunately Corsica is down for the summer, but in a prior thread I broke down the splits between home/road, both from when Step got the starts(early) and the change to Hayes starting.

        Hayes’ road splits(for P60 5v5 and Corsi) were fairly consistent through the year(where coach has less influence), while his home ones dived with the new assignment; Stepan the opposite. That is directly due to the coach’s decision, for better or worse.

        Hayes didn’t miss any games and AV kept starting him, so that knee injury must’ve not been that bad.

        You didn’t see me write about how AV is bad with kids, so leave it out of the discussion.

        • Eddie!Eddie!Eddie! says:

          I was at the game in Detroit when it happened. Kevin Hayes missed the final two periods of that game as well as the next five after that (late January-early February).

          His slash line before the injury was…

          47 games. 13 goals 22 assists 35 points. +18

          His slash line after the injury was…

          29 games. 4 goals 10 assists 14 points. -8

          Not saying the injury was the reason because none of us know how bad the injury was. But whatever the reason was, he regressed SIGNIFICANTLY after he returned. That’s fact. Not likely on AV. Either on the player himself or due to the injury.

          • Reenavipul says:

            Again, it’s the splits where the issue shows up. Counting stats like that are pretty much worthless.

            • Eddie!Eddie!Eddie! says:

              I’m not following you at all. Before the injury, Hayes was playing great. After the injury, his play slipped significantly. It may well be he was physically compromised. But regardless, he wasn’t anywhere near good enough. So are you saying Hayes succeeded in spite of AV pre-injury but slumped because of AV post-injury?

          • Reenavipul says:

            Since you missed it last time:
            Did a deep dive into Hayes, Stepan and threw in Miller. I broke the season up by home and away and also did a split of when Hayes’ line would start, with December 10th being the point of change(around that time was when AV went to him starting most of the games at home/ harder assignments.

            P60 is 5v5, all score states.

            Stepan in the 1st bit was P60 of 2.49 at home, .8 on the road. the 2nd bit(larger sample) was 2.12home/1.2 away

            Miller was h2.62/a1.8; h1.73/1.81

            Hayes was h2.55/1.22; h.65/2.16

            CF%

            Stepan was CF% h50/41.74a early, h54.79/51.33a late
            Miller: h43.30/44.51a; h47.87/43.73a
            Hayes: h43.81/42.98a; h45.19/41.95a

            I did the whole zone starts thing and the big pick up is that Hayes & Millers OZ & DZ starts (on the road) changed dramatically(25-30%) when their roles shifted. Stepan only got increased OZS.

            Long story short, Hayes, slump had as much to do with deployment as anything.

            • Walt says:

              Let’s see how the propagandists spin this Reen!!!!!!!!! Interesting results by the way…..

      • Mintgecko says:

        The team went cold while Hayes was injured, I believed they had there worst losing streak without him so you’re both wrong. Hayes came back to really not shoot the puck even more so than before he went down so that hurt him. He was also a 3c and had to be in the top 2 in terms of production out of the other 3c’s of the league. He ripped apart single handily through one of the best defensive groups after he got back, he made Josi and Ellis look silly that night. His playmaking was still there in the 2nd half, him and JT games felt the affect of Grabner going cold or else JT would have lead the team in points by a decent margin. Hayes should have been in the mid to high 50s through a bunch of main assits and Grabner would have ended the season with way more goals. Being 6 points shy from our top paid center who has way more offensive opportunity is what’s probably being judged by Gorton, not a “bad” half of the season.You’ll see soon enough my friend on what the NYR brass thinks of our center’s.

  13. Howiehockey says:

    Lots of interesting comments so I might as will chime in with mine. Here is the way I believe the expansion draft will go down for the Rangers
    There have been rumors that McPhee is looking for Young forwards,and experienced defenseman…so here it goes…
    The Rangers trade the following players to Las Vegas …Marc Staal (waives his NMC) and Rangers pay a portion of his salary (up to 50% of his salary ) plus Adam Tambellini, Halverson or Skapski and a possible mid-round draft choice.

    • Reenavipul says:

      Staal’s contract is borderline untouchable, even with the Rangers retaining 50%. The term is brutal and 3rd pair D shouldn’t cost $2.75mm. It’s not even front loaded where a cap floor team could buy the cap hit at a reduced cost.

      Skapski might not even be qualified, Tambellini is a marginal prospect and Halverson is a long way away from being a good AHL goalie.

      • Mintgecko says:

        It’s probably why a Girardi trade/buyout and a Stepan trade are two must on the to do list this summer. I think Gorton at this point has made plans on who’s behind Mika and next to Mcd to start off next season with. My guess would be for Hayes and and Shatty with a possible Thornton signing soon since it sounds like Nash is safe to begin the season with in October.

        PP1 Kreider/Thornton/Zucc
        Mika/Shatty

        PP2 Nash/JT/Buch
        Hayes/Mcd

        • ranger17 says:

          You get Jumbo Joe to play with Nash 5 on 5 and than split them up on the PP

  14. ranger17 says:

    Any way JJ is not leaving San Jose for NY